Friday, June 2, 2017

MLM and "Financial Guru" Tyson Zahner

Today's blog post is about a particularly degenerate being named Tyson Zahner. He has been around for a few years on YouTube, and has recently resurfaced again. I have written previously about "Financial Gurus" such as, Robert Kiyosaki, Tai Lopez, any of the house flipping people, and many more, and unfortunately there are plenty of these "Gurus" in the MLM industry as well. I had previously encountered Tyson last year, and had a discussion with him about Amway which degenerated into a battle between an unstoppable force and an immovable object. Tyson ran out of programmed rebuttals and performed a disappearing act, similar to any other MLM apologist.

 I have learned that as long as there is an industry where money can be made (whether legitimate or not), then there will be "Experts" to help out because they have hearts of gold and want nothing but success for everyone, or so they claim. These "Experts" very conveniently leave out their financial incentive to be "Teachers". The thing I find most fascinating about these so-called "Experts" or "Financial Gurus" is their lack of accreditation. None of these people have an actual degree, certificate, or any other verification that proves their information is authentic, legitimate, or at least peer-reviewed. There is no governing board that has strict qualifications for becoming an expert in their field of business, and there is no system in place to check their claims. They can espouse whatever they want about finance and business without any actual benchmark or standard.

Tyson Zahner is a particularly potent example of an MLM "Guru", and he utilizes hallmark strategies to deceive people into giving him their hard earned money. Here are some of his strategies:

1.Tyson has lots of YouTube videos! Tyson has been at this for years, and he has actually started paying money to have his videos come up as advertisements. These videos span from promoting his "Teachings" to click-bait inspired titles suggesting he is going to give a hard hitting analysis of an MLM (such as Amway). The end result is always the same, he wants you to watch more of his videos, sign up for his programs, classes, or MLM, and give him your hard earned money. He is running the same illegal tools racket as MLMs, such as Amway, and he has no ability to prove that his content is useful or legal.

2. Tyson uses a lot of edification. He loves to show off his face, and since he is a photography studio owner, he takes a lot of pictures making himself look prominent. He uses the same style of photography as celebrities, and he has also begun dressing in suits, because his old hillbilly look with the frayed hat probably isn't getting a desirable effect.  He also uses the new webinar program, a modern website, and many other edifying images (such as a fancy signature similar to a corporation, a picture of him on stage at a conference). The only way he can make money is by proving he is a legitimate and authentic resource for information. The more he can edify himself, the more likely he can get into other people's wallets.

3. Tyson loves talking about his rags to riches story. A typical trademark of every leader in MLM is a soppy story about their struggle and how they came to find this "business" along with a "multiple six figure income monthly". He is attempting to appear more humanly, yet he is still some random person on a computer screen trying to extract your money. He has never provided income disclosure evidence to support his claims, and he has never shown any documentation to show his wealth was generated from anything other than recruiting rubes and taking photographs in his studio.

Tyson is nearly completely automated. At this point, since I investigated a couple of these things recently, Tyson has spent many hours utilizing technology to put his message out there and to schedule people into his webinars without having to personally come into contact with the "Prospects". He has a ton of automated e-mails that will spam you to death once you sign up, and if it weren't for the fact that he had previously responded to my YouTube comments a year ago, he would be as much a real person as Pinocchio (probably should have the same nose too). Tyson, much like "Team Phoenix", has diligently created an internet personality, and you may never know who the real person is.

Tyson is an expert replicator and chameleon. He has been at this for a few years now, and none of his content, from my observations, has been unique. He has even tried to coin a seldom used phrase, "Attraction Marketing", in recent months because "Network Marketing" has become as ugly a term as "Pyramid Scheme". This is the main reason for the post, because the man is a con-artist AND he is evolving. Most of these people disappear or give up after a decently short period of time, but Tyson refuses to give up and he continues to try and enhance his deceptive strategies. He, much like MLMs, is striving to use new techniques of deception and to stay ahead of the curve before more information gets out there.

I'll leave you with the disclaimer he puts at the bottom of his page, "* Results will vary based on personal capabilities, experience, knowledge, level of desire, work ethic, time invested and an infinite number of variables beyond our knowledge or control.  There are no guarantees concerning the level of success you may achieve."

Source: 
https://successwithtyson.com/about-us/

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mQze9yPG1E

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaLwqX2-9W0&t=191s

Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeGfd9o4VSo&t=12s

38 comments:

  1. Well, at least he actually puts the disclaimer at the bottom of the page. Give him credit for that much honesty. Most MLM racketeers do nothing but orate on how rich you are bound to be if you follow their advice.

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    1. Anonymous --

      Does it really make it better if he thinks putting that stupid disclaimer at the bottom will help him with the law? We both know he isn't putting that up there because he wants people to make an informed decision after pitching his "Teaching System". Tyson is a true asshole and if he really "sponsored" 1,000 people last year, then he is doing some real damage to a lot of people.

      Delete
  2. I'm not defending the guy. He's an MLM creep like all the rest. But by putting that disclaimer down he protects himself not just from the law but from the wrath of idiots who sign up with him. The old principle of "caveat emptor" kicks in.

    Tyson may be an asshole, but so are the people whom he sponsors.

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    1. I agree that he is probably deceiving many other thieves, but I'm sure he is also deceiving many innocent dupes that have no experience with this "field".

      At the end of the day you are absolutely correct about "caveat emptor", but there should definitely be repercussions for the seller as well. If the seller is allowed to continue flogging BS remedies for people's money problems without concern for consequences, then there won't be a major change where it is needed. Relying on the conman's moral compass is about as reliable as a GPS at the bottom of the Grand Canyon.

      Delete
  3. Just got Scammed out of $97 by Tyson. Bought his "Inner Circle" membership thinking the content would be a guide book for creating my YouTube and Facebook content. Instead it was minutes of Tyson talking about himself, Totally useless. I asked for a refund of my $97 AND REUSED. TYSON IS CHARLATAN.

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    1. Anonymous,

      I'm sorry that you were scammed by Tyson, but luckily you were able to see through his BS before losing more money. Tyson has been around for many years, and many clothing sizes, and has been perfecting his technique. He has basically become a mimic of Tai Lopez and Eric Worre, and tried to get a piece of the "Prosperity Messiah" market.

      As you said, "Tyson is a charlatan", and he is just as useless as the rest of the people sent down from the heavens to teach the poor common folk how to become rich.

      Delete
    2. I am so glad I found this. I have not spent no oney but he was almost convincing on the part of how to create video content. Can you give somr names of legit teachers online? Thanks

      Delete
    3. Hi Jamie,

      I'm not the right person to recommend teachers, especially since I don't know what type of business you are trying to start or how you want to make money. My best recommendation is to ignore the "Gurus" that talk about having your best interest at heart, and mention they are making millions or are worth millions. These people are scammers, and it becomes blatantly clear, as Mark Cuban loosely stated, "If someone has a great deal, the last thing they will do is share it with you." Simply put, if these people make it sound extremely easy to make a lot of money, especially quickly, then they would be doing it themselves.

      Delete
  4. I don't know anything about MLM and would never actually bother signing up for a pipe dream like that (I ran across this website when I searched for "tyson zahner reviews). I recently left my job to start doing IT consulting on my own and saw one of Tyson's youtube ads.

    I liked what he said enough to sign up for his free "3 simple steps" webinar and I was very impressed. Like a lot of good advice a lot of it seems obvious in hindsight but obvious or not, I wasn't doing any of it before. No idea about the paid stuff.

    He talks about "leading with value" and I for one have found value in what he has given away for free. Maybe the paid stuff is not as useful but even though I'm not in any kind of MLM scheme I learned enough that I don't need anything paid. Though I did take a couple of screenshots so I could refer to them later.

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    1. Mdudu,

      Thank you for your honest review of Tyson! I appreciate you coming by and leaving this comment. I'm also glad to hear that you aren't involved in MLM and are starting your own business. That is truly commendable.

      Here is my problem with Tyson. He is only giving "advice" for free as a way to lure people into his seminars, and to get people to join his MLMs. He isn't formally trained in anything he speaks about, and everything he says, as you put it, "seems obvious". That is because he is repackaging generic, mind-numbing, rhetoric that was taught to him, and he is better than average because he has a decent camera presence (which he has worked on for years).

      If you get value from his free stuff, and you stay away from seminars and MLMs, then I suppose that is okay, but you would be an outlier. I can't say for certain, but I would guess there are very few people that watch Tyson the same way you do.

      I can tell you, without seeing any of his "paid stuff", that there is no value. He can't have anything to offer because his sources all come from criminal enterprises. It is like learning how to be successful in business from a mobster. Sure, they may make money, but do you think you can do what they do, and do you think they care if you fail? Also, if you do make money the way they do, can you deal with the fact that you are doing something illegal and hurting a lot of people?

      My best advice, especially since you seem to be relatively new to business, is to ask local business owners the basics to running a business. They are going to be your best resource because they are in your same market place, they have experience, and they are probably legal. Don't go to some random online person that you have never met for advice on your future, especially when they are caught up in criminal organizations.

      Delete
  5. Tyson is a lying shitbag who will hack shit to make money. He lies about his income and posted fake tax returns to justify his false statement of being a six figure earner.

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  6. Hey John Doe ... Tyson Zahner here again. What happened? I posted a comment nearly a week ago and it's still it not up.

    Why are you filtering it?

    If you're all about helping people make an informed decision why not let them see both sides of the story?

    If you're argument is so ironclad, it should stand up to a rebuttal, should it not?

    ReplyDelete
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    1. TZ said, "Hey John Doe ... Tyson Zahner here again. What happened? I posted a comment nearly a week ago and it's still it not up."

      Interesting. I never received an original comment from you. Would you care to resubmit it? I believe your comments will be valuable.

      TZ said, "Why are you filtering it?"

      I'm not "filtering" comments, never have, never will. Perhaps something erred on your end, because I don't believe anyone has ever had an issue with "filtering".

      TZ said, "If you're all about helping people make an informed decision why not let them see both sides of the story?"

      I'm not sure why you are being so repetitive. Consider me honored by the fact that you would care enough to take the time and defend yourself on this blog.

      On a side note. This profile appears suspicious. I have had conversations with Tyson in the past and he has never had this amount of anonymity. No profile picture, no information about himself or his business, and only two profile views (likely by me), suggests something fishy.

      Delete
    2. John - I have regularly had 'MLM' racketeers trying to peddle their familiar, 'rags- to-riches-by-following-a-step-by-step (pay-through-the-nose)-plan,' fairy stories on my Blog, but (along with my associates) we have always warned such kitsch cultic crooks of the following:

      Please be aware this is not a morally-relativist forum and, therefore, unsubstantiated 'MLM' bullshit will not be allowed to be dumped here without detailed qualification or heavy irony.

      Delete
    3. David --

      Your rules are great! He should be made aware that his presence on this forum is of his own discretion and can be subject to any conditions I choose to make. Granted I am fair and balanced author and would choose to give people as many liberties as possible, but attempting to make me look fraudulent by suggesting I "filter" comments and or content will not be tolerated. Any attacks on my credibility instead of the credibility of the blog should be required to have "detailed qualification", or will be regarded as comic relief.

      Delete
    4. John - When you know how 'MLM' cultic rackets function, Tyson Zahner is revealed as both funny and sinister, but above all, almost-entirely predictable in his tedious act.

      Mr. Zahner is merely another otherwise-mediocre (and unoriginal) little charlatan who has been steadfastly pretending to have access to a secret knowledge which has enabled him to transform from an ordinary poor human into a fabulously wealthy superhuman, and that he is prepared to share this secret knowledge with anyone (for a price).

      The USA seems to produce a never-ending supply of Tyson Zahners, but history proves that, at times of mass-alienation (following: wars, natural disasters, economic crises, etc.), all-manner of ludicrous crooks peddling all-manner of ludicrous salvation find it much easier to become widely-accepted as authentic Messiahs.

      Delete
    5. David --

      The "never-ending supply of Tyson Zahners" does seem to be increasing, at least from the advertisements that I have seen, and the industry doesn't seem to have a limit on demand for these people. I really hope there isn't a spike in Zahner's with the impending economic collapse, even though I'm sure they will get a huge boost in vulnerable victims entering the market place.

      I would be interested to see if there is a correlation between more Zahner's popping up as the American middle-class continues to get wiped out. I just saw a graph today that showed, over 50% of U.S. taxes are paid by the top 10%, and over 80% of taxes are paid by the top 20% of income earners, which would suggest the remaining 80% are prime targets for the Zahner's of the U.S. These people feel hopeless and have no way of creating enough money to sustain a lifestyle as portrayed by the "American Dream", and the Zahner's of the world claim it is somehow obtainable through their "secret knowledge". It is a frustrating situation, but it needs a lot of American Government assistance to address the issues they are perpetuating through massive taxation, out of control debt creation, and a lack of jobs for uneducated.

      Delete
  7. John Doe ... Tyson Zahner here again

    (as a side note ... yes, this is real Tyson Zahner even if my "Blogger profile doesn't have my picture or any other information about me. If that seems "fishy" to you, then so-be-it. The reason I don't have a fleshed out profile on blogspot.com is that I don't use this platform ... never have ... I own my own domain with my own website on my own server. But if you're that skeptical to think that someone else actually took the time to pretend they were me and write up a lengthy rebuttal to your article in my defense, then I'll take it as a compliment that you think I'm that important that some 3rd party would come to bat for me)

    Anyway, I'll re-submit my original comment again since you allegedly didn't get it the first time when I submitted it back on Sept. 28 (it'll come in a separate post immediately following this one)

    But first, I am curious ... what first hand experience do you have with my products or coaching programs that gives you the authority to speak about me and my motives?

    Have you ever purchased one of my products and gone through the training?

    Have you ever been a part of one of my coaching programs?

    Or are you just another person looking in from the outside forming a blanket opinion based on what you "think" you know about me?

    It seems that your position is simply that anyone who believes Network Marketing to be a viable business model is a scammer and a schemer? (that is what this entire blog is all about, right? .... isn't this site all about finding people who have any connection whatsoever to the MLM or Network Marketing world and yelling "SCAM" from the rooftops.

    If you'd looked any further than one YouTube channel I own that speaks to Network Marketers, then you would know that I help all business owners and entrepreneurs. I own two brick and mortar businesses (a photography studio and a shaved ice business). Everything I teach to network marketers and affiliate marketers are the same strategies that I've used in my photography and shaved ice businesses as well (are those scammy businesses, in your opinion too?)

    Yes, I have many network marketers as students. But I also have accountants and real estate agents and authors and information product creators and brick and mortar business owners, and others who've purchased my coaching and training products and achieved amazing results with them.

    So is it your opinion that any individual like myself - one who's acquired years of business experience and developed lots of knowledge and skills in the areas of business and marketing success - that I should not be compensated for my time, knowledge, skills and abilities?

    Is it your opinion that anyone who proposes he/she can help another person succeed in business and making more money is just a scammer?

    (FYI - My original comment will follow immediately after I post this one)

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    1. TZ --

      TZ said, "But first, I am curious ... what first hand experience do you have with my products or coaching programs that gives you the authority to speak about me and my motives?"

      First of all, the fallacy that I have to experience something in order to give an informed opinion does not apply to every situation. You "gurus" are all alike in your "teachings", and you all have the same agenda. If you have seen one, you have seen them all.

      Second of all, here is an example of why your opinion about needing to experience your courses is incorrect: I have never driven my car into a wall, but I can say, with utmost certainty, it isn't a good idea to try it.

      The idea that everyone must first experience your courses, or else their opinion is somehow null and void, is a commonly used trick by "gurus" such as yourself. This line of logic has never worked in this setting.

      TZ said, "It seems that your position is simply that anyone who believes Network Marketing to be a viable business model is a scammer and a schemer? (that is what this entire blog is all about, right? .... isn't this site all about finding people who have any connection whatsoever to the MLM or Network Marketing world and yelling "SCAM" from the rooftops."

      First of all, it isn't "Network Marketing", "Relational Marketing", "Attraction Marketing", or whatever other ridiculous term you use to describe MLM. This amateur parlor trick of changing the name to make the turd stink less will not work in this setting.

      Second of all, that isn't what this blog is about. There are plenty of blogs already doing that, and if you had actually taken the time to read any of my blog, then you would know this. In fact, right under the title of the blog, you can read a nice short sentence that describes the blog's purpose.

      Tyson said, "If you'd looked any further than one YouTube channel I own that speaks to Network Marketers, then you would know that I help all business owners and entrepreneurs. I own two brick and mortar businesses (a photography studio and a shaved ice business)."

      Is this your excuse for legitimacy? Are you trying to suggest that your relationship to MLM is somehow less detrimental to your credibility because you try to help with other professional fields? Is this like a mobster saying, "I'm legitimate because I operate a coin laundry as well as rob and kill". Come on TZ, think some of what you are saying through before you spew out your drivel.

      TZ said "Everything I teach to network marketers and affiliate marketers are the same strategies that I've used in my photography and shaved ice businesses as well (are those scammy businesses, in your opinion too?)"

      Oh good, your potentially credible businesses are run with the same nonsensical knowledge as your "MLM Guru" teachings. The fact that you use non-MLM businesses as a front to help you generate credibility for your "MLM teachings" makes you particularly dangerous. This is exactly the same as how the mob used their businesses to try and prove legitimacy. This is probably something you should not repeat.

      Delete
    2. TZ said, "Yes, I have many network marketers as students. But I also have accountants and real estate agents and authors and information product creators and brick and mortar business owners, and others who've purchased my coaching and training products and achieved amazing results with them."

      I believe this is against the FTC's rules for endorsements. Not only can you not prove that your "training" or "teaching" has any quantifiable effect, but you literally put a disclaimer saying you take no responsibility for the consequences of these "teachings". I'm fairly certain, as the owner of your "company", you are not allowed to say things like this.

      https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/ftcs-endorsement-guides-what-people-are-asking#affiliateornetwork

      TZ said, "So is it your opinion that any individual like myself - one who's acquired years of business experience and developed lots of knowledge and skills in the areas of business and marketing success - that I should not be compensated for my time, knowledge, skills and abilities?"

      Yes, especially since the market you are targeting is not legal.

      Delete

    3. TZ said, "Is it your opinion that anyone who proposes he/she can help another person succeed in business and making more money is just a scammer?"

      Yes and no. I would first like to point out how you have morphed from a "Network Marketing" "teacher" to a person that "helps another person succeed in business and making more money". That's an interesting transition.

      I believe there are people that help others "succeed in business and making money", they are called teachers, and they have formal educations and certificates to prove competency. I do believe there are also informal teachers out there, particularly in trade-work (such as tailors, farmers, mechanics etc.), that mentor people to learn a particular skill or trade.

      I do not believe that you fall in either of these categories, and I do not believe you have some overarching general knowledge that pertains to every field that falls under the category of "business and making money". I don't think anyone has the ability to say they have this knowledge, and yes that includes the most successful billionaires in the world. The fact that you are trying to call yourself a "teacher", because you run a photography studio and a shaved ice business is bizarre, but to say you have helped "accountants", "real estate agents", and "authors" with no formal training or certification is, dubious at best. There is no logical reason to believe you have any ability to do this, and in my opinion your a scammer.TZ said, "Is it your opinion that anyone who proposes he/she can help another person succeed in business and making more money is just a scammer?"

      Yes and no. I would first like to point out how you have morphed from a "Network Marketing" "teacher" to a person that "helps another person succeed in business and making more money". That's an interesting transition.

      I believe there are people that help others "succeed in business and making money", they are called teachers, and they have formal educations and certificates to prove competency. I do believe there are also informal teachers out there, particularly in trade-work (such as tailors, farmers, mechanics etc.), that mentor people to learn a particular skill or trade.

      I do not believe that you fall in either of these categories, and I do not believe you have some overarching general knowledge that pertains to every field that falls under the category of "business and making money". I don't think anyone has the ability to say they have this knowledge, and yes that includes the most successful billionaires in the world. The fact that you are trying to call yourself a "teacher", because you run a photography studio and a shaved ice business is bizarre, but to say you have helped "accountants", "real estate agents", and "authors" with no formal training or certification is, dubious at best. There is no logical reason to believe you have any ability to do this, and in my opinion your a scammer.

      Delete
  8. I have edited the following comment due to a violation of my rules on this blog. I do not condone any solicitations for any products, especially those that are related to a scam.

    TZOctober 10, 2017 at 5:06 PM

    Hey folks - Tyson Zahner here (the real one).

    Consider the reason this author (John Doe) chooses to remain anonymous. Cowards can say anything they want behind the veil of anonymity.

    He admits that he hasn't purchased any of my products so he has no first hand experience other than the fact that he's seen some of my videos ...

    (Oh, and the body shaming John Doe … real classy and totally relevant to your argument … well done)

    Ultimately John Doe’s comments don’t bother me because I know this … every single person who's ever made a difference in this world has/had critics.

    Mother Teresa had critics.

    Every world leader has/had critics.

    Martin Luther King, Jr. was murdered for making a difference.

    But you know who doesn't have haters? People who take zero risks.

    People who are insignificant.

    It's real easy for folks like John Doe to throw stones anonymously from the sidelines while others are out on the field.

    So first, I want to let every person out there reading this know (if you've had people doubt you and say negative things about you and say you'll never amount to anything) ... that's normal.

    It means you're moving toward your goals and you're likely making others around you feel insecure with their lack of ambition.

    John Doe is not the first hater I've encountered online and I'm certain he won't be the last.

    I'm not here to appease him or anyone like him.

    I'm here to serve those who can think for themselves and NOT those who are easily persuaded by some anonymous review online.

    So perhaps you're wondering how to know if I'm the real deal?

    Well, I could send you to multiple testimonials from my students ... people who've worked with me first hand (you could find plenty of them by searching “Tyson Zahner reviews” on YouTube)

    But testimonials can be faked, right?

    So I guess could post tax returns showing the results I've achieved, but that could easily be faked as well.

    I could show you that I have a huge community of followers on social media who look forward to my content and free training every week.

    But who knows, perhaps I purchased all of those fan page likes from 3rd world countries just to boost my ego.

    So NO, I don't expect any of that to convince you, and I won't insult your intelligence by suggesting that it should.

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    1. David Brear October 11, 2017 at 12:33 AM

      John - I think Mr. Zahner has somewhat foolishly just proved the accuracy of my analysis of him.

      When you know how 'MLM' cultic rackets function, Tyson Zahner is revealed as both funny and sinister, but above all, almost-entirely predictable in his tedious act.

      Mr. Zahner is merely another otherwise-mediocre (and unoriginal) little charlatan who has been steadfastly pretending to have access to a secret knowledge which has enabled him to transform from an ordinary poor human into a fabulously wealthy superhuman, and that he is prepared to share this secret knowledge with anyone (for a price).

      The USA seems to produce a never-ending supply of Tyson Zahners, but history proves that, at times of mass-alienation (following: wars, natural disasters, economic crises, etc.), all-manner of ludicrous crooks peddling all-manner of ludicrous salvation find it much easier to become widely-accepted as authentic Messiahs.

      Delete
    2. John DoeOctober 11, 2017 at 7:04 AM

      TZ said, "Consider the reason this author (John Doe) chooses to remain anonymous. Cowards can say anything they want behind the veil of anonymity."

      My anonymity is not relevant to the discussion of your legitimacy. This silly distraction is not effective in this setting.

      TZ said, "He admits that he hasn't purchased any of my products so he has no first hand experience other than the fact that he's seen some of my videos ..."

      Please stop with the repetition. You said this line at least 4 times in your previous post. We get it, you like this line of bad logic, but it is still bad logic and will not hold weight in this setting.

      TZ said, "Ultimately John Doe’s comments don’t bother me because I know this … every single person who's ever made a difference in this world has/had critics.
      Mother Teresa had critics.
      Every world leader has/had critics.
      Martin Luther King, Jr. was murdered for making a difference.
      But you know who doesn't have haters? People who take zero risks.
      People who are insignificant."

      First of all, did you just compare yourself to Mother Theresa and MLK Jr.? Can we sound the narcissism klaxon? Unbelievable.

      Second of all, I clearly have bothered you as you have come to this blog and written a bizarre and error-riddled tirade. But this is irrelevant.

      I clearly am not "insignificant", according to your logic, as a "hater" has presented himself in my comment section.

      TZ said, "So perhaps you're wondering how to know if I'm the real deal?
      Well, I could send you to multiple testimonials from my students ... people who've worked with me first hand (you could find plenty of them by searching “Tyson Zahner reviews” on YouTube)
      But testimonials can be faked, right?

      Funny how you answer your own question here, but you leave out the glaringly bigger problem. Your endorsements for your product are in direct violation with the FTC and may be reported. As I mentioned in the previous comment, you cannot make anecdotal endorsements for your product without quantifiable evidence that it works.

      If you actually did want to prove legitimacy, not that it would be possible with the field you claim to be "teaching", you should provide some form of certificate from a reliable institute.

      TZ said, "So I guess could post tax returns showing the results I've achieved, but that could easily be faked as well."

      Correct again. Tax returns mean little, especially when it comes to legitimacy of the "business" you claim to run as a "teacher" of "network marketing". The fact that you are paying taxes with these, in my opinion, stolen monies, is not relevant.

      TZ said, "I could show you that I have a huge community of followers on social media who look forward to my content and free training every week."

      Jim Jones had a huge cult following. David Duke has a huge cult following. David Koresh had a huge cult following. You are correct again, this proves nothing.

      TZ said, "But who knows, perhaps I purchased all of those fan page likes from 3rd world countries just to boost my ego."

      Just want to point out how bizarre this statement is.

      Delete
    3. David --

      I had a feeling I could trigger Tyson and get him to come here and comment. Not only did he come, but he performed beautifully with his ridiculous comments. Tyson seems to be unique, compared to the other "gurus" or "messiahs" out there. He takes comments on blogs personally, and he will actually take time to defend himself. The lunacy he displays to try and defend his ego shows his own fragility.

      Tyson's comments are something this blog needed for veracity. I can write about these people and their shenanigans, but to get one of them to comment, and reveal their insanity, is priceless.

      Delete
    4. John Doe said: "You have morphed from a "Network Marketing" "teacher" to a person that "helps another person succeed in business and making more money". That's an interesting transition."
      Wrong again … I first studied marketing out of necessity to learn how to create success in my offline brick and mortar photography studio. I then transitioned that skillset into other business models. Network marketers and Affiliate Marketers are just one segment of business owners that I help with my knowledge (since I have CREATED success using those business models too). Prior to creating my YouTube channel targeting Network Marketers, I was very active in photography forums helping photographers to create more success in their studios (yet another example of you making assumptions instead of doing any actual research ... good work).

      John Doe Said: " I believe there are people that help others 'succeed in business and making money', they are called teachers, and they have formal educations and certificates to prove competency"

      So in your opinion, the only way to be considered a credible source of information is to have a formal education on the subject and a piece of paper to prove competency? I'll use my photography studio as an example to prove how ridiculous this logic is and then I'll bring it back to business. I do not have a formal education as a photographer. Never went to school for it (actually I have a Master's degree in education ... so interestingly … according to your standards, I am a real teacher ... I taught in the Missouri public school system for 11 years before leaving and going full time from home, but I digress ...) I have never once had a photography client show up and ask to see my "diploma" or my "certification". My photos (aka - my results) are my diploma. All they have to do is take one look at my photography to decide whether I know my stuff or if I'm full of crap.

      I treat my marketing coaching company the same way. What do you think is more effective for PROVING that I have competency in business and marketing? Showing a piece of paper from an institution (by the way, I know a lot of people with degrees in business and marketing who can't find a job because they literally have never created success in business and/or marketing) OR is it more effective and convincing to give away FREE advice (which has been obtained from my real world experience in building multiple businesses) that my potential customers can use to decide for themselves if what I teach works? Your argument about needing a formal education and certification is so full of holes that it doesn't hold water for even a moment.
      And on top of that, you speak out of both sides of your mouth. Earlier, you quoted Mark Cuban as a credible source of information to prop up your argument, but Mark Cuban dropped out of high school. He never went to business school. He never went to "investing school". He obtained his education in the very best (and most credible) way possible ... through real world experience in the school of hard knocks. Is it your position that he has no business giving financial or entrepreneurial advice to others since he doesn't have a formal education or a certificate to prove his competency? Tell us again, John Doe what successful businesses you've built (or what formal education do you hold) that gives you the authority and credibility to provide the information that you do on this blog?

      Delete
    5. I have edited the following comment due to a violation of my rules on this blog. I do not condone any solicitations for any products, especially those that are related to a scam.

      John Doe, you are the perfect example of the fact that no matter what anyone says, you’ll twist it to fit your agenda. For example, If I say I’ve never built any business other than direct sales, you’ll use that to say I have no credibility because I’ve never made money in any legitimate way other than (what you claim to be) criminal enterprises. As soon as I show that I have experience building multiple businesses (many of which you could never claim are illegitimate), you twist that to say it’s a “front”, just like a mobster for my actual EVIL plans to simply take people’s money without providing any real value in return.
      This is the perfect example that there is no winning with you. (which is why this will be my last post here and then you’ll call it another “disappearing act similar to any other MLM apologist”)

      Also John Doe said: "I have edited the following comment due to a violation of my rules on this blog. I do not condone any solicitations for any products, especially those that are related to a scam."

      There were no solicitations of any products. In fact, there was not even a link.

      ***EDIT*** This portion of the comment has been removed because it references where to find Tyson's material. It is irrelevant if a link is published or not, there is no reason to list where people can find your material here. This is the same as any other endorsement which is not allowed.

      John Doe said: "He isn't formally trained in anything he speaks about" then he said "[teachers] have formal educations and certificates to prove competency" then he said "The fact that you are trying to call yourself a "teacher" ... with no formal training or certification is, dubious at best. Then Joe Doe said: "None of these people have an actual degree, certificate, or any other verification that proves their information is authentic, legitimate, or at least peer-reviewed". Then he said "you should provide some form of certificate from a reliable institute." I believe I've shown how ridiculous your logic is above, so 'please stop with the repetition. You said this line at least 4 times. We get it, you like this line of bad logic, but it is still bad logic and will not hold weight in this setting. :)

      Delete
    6. This comment was not edited, but did have to be deleted due to an infraction with the previous comment.

      John Doe also said: "These 'Experts' very conveniently leave out their financial incentive to be 'Teachers'". In my case, not true at all. I frequently compare my webinars to free samples at Costco. In several videos I say "If you like the sample, you might be interested in diving deeper and buying the whole box". (If you had not edited my original post due to the fact that it destroys your argument, people would be able to see this is true for themselves). Before people ever sign-up for one of my web classes, I'm very transparent that there will be an offer at the end. I'm also very transparent that I'm sharing the results that have worked best in my business and just because they work well for me, doesn't mean they'll work well for everyone. We all have different businesses, skillsets, personalities, work ethics and a variety of other factors that contribute to success. Please, John Doe show me ONE person that you consider to be a legitimate business coach who GUARANTEES that everyone who trains with them will achieve results. For that matter, show me one college that guarantees you'll get a job after you graduate?

      John Doe said: "I clearly have bothered you as you have come to this blog and written a bizarre and error-riddled tirade".
      If that makes you feel better, then so be it. The truth is I believe it's important for people to hear both sides of the story. Since you feel the need to post an outside opinion without any first hand experience in dealing with me or my company, I feel it's only fair that I provide the balancing side of your own "error-riddled tirade" so that smart discerning people can decide for themselves who to believe.

      Delete
    7. This comment was not edited, but did have to be deleted due to an infraction with the previous comment.

      Here’s another perfect example that John Doe will spin anything his opponents say or do to fit his agenda.

      If I don’t respond, I’m (in John Doe’s own words) “as much a real person as Pinocchio” who performs a disappearing act similar to any other MLM apologist”

      When I do respond, you claim that it only shows my fragility.

      Which is it? You can’t have it both ways.

      Delete
    8. TZ said, "Wrong again … I first studied marketing out of necessity to learn how to create success in my offline brick and mortar photography studio. I then transitioned that skillset into other business models."

      Got it. You started as a normal citizen, "studied marketing", then transformed into a "business helper" "guru". Makes sense. (sarcasm implied)

      TZ said, "Network marketers and Affiliate Marketers are just one segment of business owners that I help with my knowledge (since I have CREATED success using those business models too). Prior to creating my YouTube channel targeting Network Marketers, I was very active in photography forums helping photographers to create more success in their studios (yet another example of you making assumptions instead of doing any actual research ... good work)."

      Okay, so you are both a teacher and a participant in the "Network Marketing" fraud. Your "teaching" came after you had recruited a bunch of people into the scheme, similar to the Eric Worre path, then you realized it is more profitable to create your own "teachings" and you took Eric Worre's "Network Marketing" term to use as your own. Fascinating.

      Also, I'm not sure why you would think I would care about your history with photography. It has nothing to do with this blog or the article. This distraction holds no weight in this setting.

      TZ said, "So in your opinion, the only way to be considered a credible source of information is to have a formal education on the subject and a piece of paper to prove competency?"

      Yes, and that is the opinion shared in society as well. Degrees and certificates have always been benchmarks for proving proficiency in a subject. I'm surprised you are just now learning this.

      Delete


    9. TZ said, "I'll use my photography studio as an example to prove how ridiculous this logic is and then I'll bring it back to business. I do not have a formal education as a photographer. Never went to school for it"

      Interesting how you chopped my paragraph in half and left out the part where I said trade-work is different. It actually perfectly describes how your industry is different and does not require higher education (even though there are photography classes). I would not encourage someone to go to college for photography as it is something that can be learned through mentoring and would probably be a waste of money.

      TZ said, "(actually I have a Master's degree in education ... so interestingly … according to your standards, I am a real teacher ... I taught in the Missouri public school system for 11 years before leaving and going full time from home, but I digress ...)"

      Ah, the appeal to authority fallacy. You are assuming, because you have a masters in education (assuming you are telling the truth), that you can teach "business and Network Marketing". The two do not correlate, and this should background should be disregarded.

      TZ said, "I treat my marketing coaching company the same way. What do you think is more effective for PROVING that I have competency in business and marketing? Showing a piece of paper from an institution (by the way, I know a lot of people with degrees in business and marketing who can't find a job because they literally have never created success in business and/or marketing) OR is it more effective and convincing to give away FREE advice (which has been obtained from my real world experience in building multiple businesses) that my potential customers can use to decide for themselves if what I teach works?"

      Honestly, it doesn't really matter, because the industry you chose to be a "coach", "teacher", "guru", "mentor" in is a fraud.

      For argument's sake, it is valuable to have both of these things, nobody would deny that, but the fact that you do not have any ability to qualify yourself for the "teaching" you offer is the reason I made this point. You have spun this, somehow, into being a reputable "Network Marketing" coach because you have a degree in education and a photography business. Does that make any sense? (Rhetorical question)

      I'm not sure why you are trying to dismiss formal education, if you have a "masters in education". It gave you a stable job for "11 years", and you provided a service to your community. Sounds a lot better than running a "coaching business on Network Marketing".

      TZ said, "And on top of that, you speak out of both sides of your mouth. Earlier, you quoted Mark Cuban as a credible source of information to prop up your argument, but Mark Cuban dropped out of high school. He never went to business school. He never went to "investing school". He obtained his education in the very best (and most credible) way possible ... through real world experience in the school of hard knocks."

      Actually, Mark Cuban has a college degree, he did go to a business school, and he graduated with a "Bachelors of Science degree in Management" according to his Wikipedia page. He dropped out of high school to enroll early in college. Seems odd that you referenced him anyway since there are very few Mark Cuban billionaires out there compared to the rest of high school dropouts.

      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Cuban

      TZ said, "Tell us again, John Doe what successful businesses you've built (or what formal education do you hold) that gives you the authority and credibility to provide the information that you do on this blog?"

      Well, my blog is focused on psychology and conditioning from MLM, therefore business is irrelevant. My background, regardless, is also irrelevant and the information I provide can be regularly found across the web and in citations I have provided.

      Delete
    10. TZ said, "John Doe, you are the perfect example of the fact that no matter what anyone says, you’ll twist it to fit your agenda."

      I have not had to "twist" anything. I simply copy your words and show what is wrong with them.

      TZ said, "For example, If I say I’ve never built any business other than direct sales, you’ll use that to say I have no credibility because I’ve never made money in any legitimate way other than (what you claim to be) criminal enterprises."

      I still don't know why you bring up your other businesses. They have nothing to do with the subject, and are a weird distraction.

      You don't have credibility because the subject you are claiming to be a "teacher" has no quantifiable way to prove legitimacy, and the "industry" it represents is a scam.

      TZ said, "As soon as I show that I have experience building multiple businesses (many of which you could never claim are illegitimate), you twist that to say it’s a “front”, just like a mobster for my actual EVIL plans to simply take people’s money without providing any real value in return."

      Actually, the reason I consider them a "front" is the way you use them to legitimize your "Network Marketing Coaching Business". Not only do the businesses you talk about have nothing to do with expertise in that field, but you don't have any actual proof that you have some specific training that can be used to provide others with training. This is the case because there is no such training for this "field" you "teach in, and there is no way to prove your "teaching" has had any meaningful impact.

      TZ said, "This is the perfect example that there is no winning with you. (which is why this will be my last post here and then you’ll call it another “disappearing act similar to any other MLM apologist”)"

      Why would you think you can "win"? You represent a "criminal enterprise" (Brear), and you "teach" on a subject that doesn't exist while taking monies from hard-working, vulnerable, individuals that don't know any better.

      Delete
    11. TZ said, "In my case, not true at all. I frequently compare my webinars to free samples at Costco. In several videos I say "If you like the sample, you might be interested in diving deeper and buying the whole box". (If you had not edited my original post due to the fact that it destroys your argument, people would be able to see this is true for themselves)."

      Not only does your example have nothing to do with my point about people leaving out their financial incentives (i.e. recruitment, to sell more "teachings), but your original post didn't have anything to do with this either. It was just a glorified plug to get people to look up your information. Which, free or not (which it isn't), is not something that I will ever support here.

      TZ said, "Before people ever sign-up for one of my web classes, I'm very transparent that there will be an offer at the end. I'm also very transparent that I'm sharing the results that have worked best in my business and just because they work well for me, doesn't mean they'll work well for everyone. We all have different businesses, skillsets, personalities, work ethics and a variety of other factors that contribute to success. Please, John Doe show me ONE person that you consider to be a legitimate business coach who GUARANTEES that everyone who trains with them will achieve results. For that matter, show me one college that guarantees you'll get a job after you graduate?"

      I'm not sure what qualifies as a "business coach", but that terminology already throws up a red flag. You can be a business major and get a degree, but the idea of a "coach" for business sounds like a way to try and be credible without any formal education. That to me, is dubious at best.

      Your schools question is another weird distraction that has nothing to do with the legitimacy of your "teachings". I'm not sure why you even brought this up, but society as a whole recognizes that higher education leads to better opportunity.

      Interesting that you brought up the "g-word", guarantee, as that word is considered blasphemy in business. Anyone who "guarantees" anything should immediately be disregarded when it comes to these types of results.

      TZ said, "If that makes you feel better, then so be it. The truth is I believe it's important for people to hear both sides of the story. Since you feel the need to post an outside opinion without any first hand experience in dealing with me or my company, I feel it's only fair that I provide the balancing side of your own "error-riddled tirade" so that smart discerning people can decide for themselves who to believe."

      Oi vey, stop with the first-hand nonsense. That logic, once again, still doesn't work in this setting.

      You haven't provided a "balance" at all. You have repeated bad logic, distractions, and "error-riddled" comments in an attempt to confuse the premise and obfuscate the fact that you have no credibility and your "teachings" have no real bearing.

      Delete
    12. TZ said, "Here’s another perfect example that John Doe will spin anything his opponents say or do to fit his agenda.

      If I don’t respond, I’m (in John Doe’s own words) “as much a real person as Pinocchio” who performs a disappearing act similar to any other MLM apologist”

      When I do respond, you claim that it only shows my fragility.

      Which is it? You can’t have it both ways."

      Tyson --

      I didn't spin anything. I simply copied what you posted and responded. I tried to trigger you because you are easily offended and one of the few people that will actually come to this blog to try and "win".

      You didn't have to post any comments, and I wouldn't have ever had any responses. I'm not sure how you could have disappeared if you never appeared in the first place, and you have done a superb job of demonstrating your fragility.

      Delete
  9. I'll leave your readers with this (assuming you don't edit it out just like you did my previous post).

    Strike #1 against your credibility: Your anonymity shows that you're a coward who doesn't want anyone to know who you are because you have absolutely experience to speak about the things of which you speak.

    Strike #2 against your credibility: You resort to profanity such as calling me an "asshole" (have we ever met in person, by the way? Have you been through my coaching, training or courses?) and other cheap shots like body shaming and pointing out my struggle with my weight (clearly you recognize how foolish this made you look because you've edited your original post to remove the "fat remarks")

    Strike #3 against your credibility: You've never built a successful business yourself

    (normally 3 strikes is "out" but I'll continue)

    Strike #4 against your credibility: You admit you've never had any first hand dealings with my products or my company.

    Strike #5 against your credibility: You edited out the ONE, most important part of my post that would truly allow people to see for themselves whether I know what I'm talking about or not (all under the guise of saying I "broke" the rules on your blog even though there was no link to any product or web page whatsoever)

    Shall I continue? ...

    Strike #6 against your credibility: You talk about of both sides of your mouth. On one hand you state (repeatedly) that one must have a formal education and certification to prove competency and then you quote someone like Mark Cuban (who has none of those things) to help make your argument.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. TZ said, "I'll leave your readers with this (assuming you don't edit it out just like you did my previous post)."

      I have only edited out the references involving how to find your "information" and "teachings". I don't support that here.

      TZ said, "Strike #1 against your credibility: Your anonymity shows that you're a coward who doesn't want anyone to know who you are because you have absolutely experience to speak about the things of which you speak."

      Not that I have to defend myself, because I don't, but I could care less if you knew my identity. I keep anonymity to protect my family from MLM SLAPP (Strategic lawsuits against public participation) lawsuits. There is no reason for my family to have to go through that ordeal, and the fact that MLMs have a petty history and way too much money is reason enough for me to not stick my neck out there.

      TZ said, "You resort to profanity such as calling me an "asshole" (have we ever met in person, by the way? Have you been through my coaching, training or courses?) and other cheap shots like body shaming and pointing out my struggle with my weight (clearly you recognize how foolish this made you look because you've edited your original post to remove the "fat remarks")"

      Anyone that claims to have a special knowledge and supports MLM, "Network Marketing", "Relational Marketing, "Attraction Marketing", or whatever other name you want to call it, is a 100% bonafide asshole. You are quite deserving of the label.

      I actually don't care about your weight, but again, I knew it would trigger you, and is the reason I put it out there.

      TZ said, "You've never built a successful business yourself"

      How would you know? After your first comment, literally saying you know nothing about me, how could you then make this claim? Doesn't this make your attempt at credibility look bad?

      This is just silly.

      TZ said, "You admit you've never had any first hand dealings with my products or my company."

      I just...I can't. I have to laugh at this.

      TZ said, "You edited out the ONE, most important part of my post that would truly allow people to see for themselves whether I know what I'm talking about or not (all under the guise of saying I "broke" the rules on your blog even though there was no link to any product or web page whatsoever)"

      If that was the most important part of your tirade, then consider it a blessing people didn't learn how to reach you.

      Also, as commander and chief of this blog, I do not need to post a formal "rules" page, but again, I do not condone people promoting, or suggesting where to find, material that can be deemed harmful to consumers.

      TZ said, "You talk about of both sides of your mouth. On one hand you state (repeatedly) that one must have a formal education and certification to prove competency and then you quote someone like Mark Cuban (who has none of those things) to help make your argument."

      Funny how you doubled down on this one, which you are flat wrong about. Here is the link to Mark Cuban's wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Cuban

      I think you will find it, enlightening.

      Delete
  10. John - To summarize -

    Predictably, Mr. Zahner (whose only qualification seems to be that of music teacher) is attacking your credibility whilst steadfastly pretending that he can teach/help anyone to succeed/make money in 'MLM,' when the quantifiable, overall hidden churn/loss rates for this type of so-called 'business/income opportunity,' have always been effectively 100% .

    Years ago, I wrote the following analysis which Mr. Zahner perfectly conforms to:

    Decades of independent quantifiable evidence proves beyond all reasonable doubt that anyone claiming, or implying, that it is possible to make money in a so-called 'MLM scheme,' cannot be telling the truth and, consequently, he/she cannot produce any independent quantifiable evidence to back up his/her absurd false statements.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. David --

      Thank you for your summation. I fear I went too deeply into his responses, and as such, may have been a bit long-winded. I wanted to make sure I highlighted as many of the flaws as possible, as a demonstration to the constant trickery and deceit these MLM charlatans display.

      Your analysis is perfect. I may reference this in the future!

      Delete