***UPDATE 2*** The comments part of the post has been updated. New comments from "Michael Coble" and "Dr. Travis Fox" have been added.
***UPDATE 1*** Travis Fox is not a doctor. This post has been heavily updated to reflect this new information. I have posted three links in the source section that talk about his fake doctorate.
If you want to see what I previously wrote about Brandon and "Team Phoenix Marketing", you can click on part one here and part two here.
Today's blog post is, yet again, about Brandon Odom and his "new" scam, "The Ace Initiative". "The Ace Initiative" much like "Team Phoenix Marketing", "Digital Genius Lab", and "Global Affiliate Zone", is a training scam designed to teach people how to make Facebook advertisements for the sole purpose of getting new potential recruits to watch a "webinar" about joining "The Ace Initiative". After a recruit watches the vague "webinar", which explains nothing about the product or service, they are instructed to pay $99.00 a month for the opportunity to get a "90% complete system" in which "The Ace Initiative" will provide all of the necessary resources to help earn "big ticket" commissions. The "big ticket" item is a water ionizing machine from "Enagic", an MLM, that costs thousands of dollars. In order to join "The Ace Initiative", a new recruit must buy one of these water ionizing machines, even if they don't need it, to then qualify for the opportunity to sell the water ionizing machine. "The Ace Initiative", exactly like the other three listed above, is a misleading training scam designed to lure unsuspecting consumers into an MLM.
Here is what "The Ace Initiative" has to say about their service:
2. This is not an "affiliate business". Here is the definition of a real "affiliate marketing" business. MLM commonly uses this terminology to deceptively appear as something they are not. Affiliate marketing does not require the affiliate marketer to purchase of any goods or services in order to receive commissions and bonuses, and they do not get paid for recruitment. These are unique MLM characteristics.
I'm not sure what "subconscious autocoding" is, but it sounds like brainwashing.According to this biography about Dr. Travis Fox, he could be qualified to help people with the conditions and mindsets listed above , but they do not qualify him to help with business. Travis Fox is not a doctor, has never been a doctor, has no accredited degrees in psychology or clinical hypnotherapy. Regardless of Travis Fox's background, these techniques do not help with MLM. This is where the line, between appropriate and inappropriate uses of psychology, gets blurred. There are very useful situations for hypnotherapy and subconscious programming, but it can also be extremely dangerous if it is used for inappropriate self-gain, such as with MLM. I'm not sure how Dr. Fox got involved with Brandon, but this seems to be a poor business decisions.
Dr. Fox will somehow be relevant for selling water ionizing machines.
These quotes were taken from the front page of their website, which I'm not going to link since I don't promote scams, and none of it has anything to do with what "The Ace Initiative" is or what they promote. If I did not translate a lot of the vague and misleading jargon, people would not have a clue as to what this "program" is, how much it will cost, or how a person makes money. These details are consistently avoided by Brandon, and the rest of MLMers, because they want the opportunity to brainwash their recruits before explaining the terrible "opportunity". MLMers, like Brandon, want to focus on hype and misleading testimonials rather than the actual "opportunity", because the "opportunity" is not something to be excited about.
"The Ace Initiative", exactly like "Global Affiliate Zone" (The scam that taught Brandon), and "Team Phoenix Marketing (Brandon's first attempt at running the scam), is designed as a second layer to the MLM scam. This concept was started in Amway with organizations known as "Line of Sponsorhip" (LOS). Instead of signing up for Amway directly, a recruit has to sign up for this secondary organization and purchase their "tools", for the "opportunity" to purchase Amway products. "The Ace Initiative" has the exact same relationship with "Enagic". Instead of signing up as an "Enagic" distributor, a recruit is signing up for the "The Ace Initiative" and paying for their "tools" to help market "Enagic". They have made it even more convoluted by placing "Enagic" on the back burner and treating it as an auxiliary purchase for the "opportunity", but the concept remains the same. "The Ace Initiative" is a separate cost that offers nothing of material value for the "opportunity" to earn commissions by recruiting people into "Enagic".
*UPDATE*
This section is going to be regularly updated with comments from "The Ace Initiative" members.
"Kate Mueller" says:
Here is a comment from "Bryan Hodgson", one of the three founders and alleged "7-Figure Earner"
Here are some glaring issues with his comment.
1. Starting a sentence with the number "2", instead of spelling it out, makes the comment look far less professional. It is clear this was hastily put together.
2. The first sentence doesn't make sense. Why would you move forward with my allegations? Shouldn't you be moving forward with your own allegations?
3. Which alleged statements were false? I'll be more than happy to correct the record.
4. Letter "A.)" is the exact same as "1.)"
5. What is "Material Harm"?
6. Good luck proving "C.)".
7. It's probably not smart to take legal action against an alias. Good luck finding "Geoff Rey".
8. Why wouldn't you have your attorneys contact me first? It doesn't make sense to make this kind of threat, unless you don't actually have attorneys.
Again, I have to give Mr. Hodgson credit for his creativity, but he is going to have to do a lot better than this. I'm sorry to burst your bubble Mr. Hodgson, but the blog post will remain where it is.
A comment from "Michael Coble":
I'm also fairly certain you can't make the claim that these machines help with fibromyalgia. That is a violation of the FTC's rules and regulations about distributors making health claims.
Hopefully you aren't an English teacher, because nothing I have written would be considered slanderous. The correct term you are looking for is libel, which I also have not done.
I don't need to have a conversation with a fraudster like you. You MLMers are all the same.
I had a conversation with "Dr." Travis Fox, which overall was very pleasant. However, he is a seasoned snake-oil salesman, and he has learned it is better to keep things as pleasant as possible. Here is one comment that proved he isn't as pure as he may seem.
Any time an MLMer decides to weaponize the sick for their own self-gain, there should be an immediate red flag raised. The ulterior motives of these MLMers outweigh their concern for the sickly.
_________________________________________________________________________
Sources:
https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/selling-work-home-or-other-business-opportunity-revised-rule
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affiliate_marketing
https://www.allamericanspeakers.com/celebritytalentbios/Dr.+Travis+Fox/6051
http://fakedoctorate.blogspot.com/2017/11/reader-feedback-on-travis-fox.html
http://fakedoctorate.blogspot.com/2013/04/attorney-for-travis-fox-speaks-out.html
http://fakedoctorate.blogspot.com/2012/11/travis-fox-fake-doctorate.html
***UPDATE 1*** Travis Fox is not a doctor. This post has been heavily updated to reflect this new information. I have posted three links in the source section that talk about his fake doctorate.
If you want to see what I previously wrote about Brandon and "Team Phoenix Marketing", you can click on part one here and part two here.
Today's blog post is, yet again, about Brandon Odom and his "new" scam, "The Ace Initiative". "The Ace Initiative" much like "Team Phoenix Marketing", "Digital Genius Lab", and "Global Affiliate Zone", is a training scam designed to teach people how to make Facebook advertisements for the sole purpose of getting new potential recruits to watch a "webinar" about joining "The Ace Initiative". After a recruit watches the vague "webinar", which explains nothing about the product or service, they are instructed to pay $99.00 a month for the opportunity to get a "90% complete system" in which "The Ace Initiative" will provide all of the necessary resources to help earn "big ticket" commissions. The "big ticket" item is a water ionizing machine from "Enagic", an MLM, that costs thousands of dollars. In order to join "The Ace Initiative", a new recruit must buy one of these water ionizing machines, even if they don't need it, to then qualify for the opportunity to sell the water ionizing machine. "The Ace Initiative", exactly like the other three listed above, is a misleading training scam designed to lure unsuspecting consumers into an MLM.
Here is what "The Ace Initiative" has to say about their service:
"Our program empowers students and clients to go from "survival mode" to "thrive mode" in every area of their lives. Our members learn the fastest, simplest way to generating life-enhancing incomes through a profitable online affiliate business of their own. "1. They cannot guarantee this is a "profitable online affiliate business" without expressly giving a proper income disclosure document. This is something they will never be able to provide, because the business is designed to profit from, rather than enrich the newest recruits. Here is what the FTC has to say about false income claims.
2. This is not an "affiliate business". Here is the definition of a real "affiliate marketing" business. MLM commonly uses this terminology to deceptively appear as something they are not. Affiliate marketing does not require the affiliate marketer to purchase of any goods or services in order to receive commissions and bonuses, and they do not get paid for recruitment. These are unique MLM characteristics.
"As they progress, they receive training to help them overcome obstacles and limiting beliefs and discover their true passions in life.""They" are not being recruited to "overcome obstacles and limiting beliefs". "They" are being recruited to spend large amounts of money on "Enagic" water ioninzing machines and useless "training". "They" are going to "discover their true passions in life" probably aren't promoting fake "training" for the "business opportunity" to sell useless water ionizing machines.
"You see, we know that success is a science. It's a proven, duplicatable process. Travis Fox, one of our founding partners, has perfected the use of "Subconscious Autocoding™" to help people improve their lives in a variety of areas such as competitive athletics, weight-loss, addictions, phobias, sales, business and more.""Success is a science" is a partially stolen quote from Oscar Wilde. "The Ace Initiative" is a plagiarized idea from "Global Affiliate Zone". "Duplicatable process" is a plagiarized line from Amway. This Amway line is the fundamental flaw in the MLM scheme. The "duplication" refers to endless recruiting rather than the focus on selling a good or service, which ensures a large number of participants will not make money.
I'm not sure what "subconscious autocoding" is, but it sounds like brainwashing.
"He teaches clients to redefine and refine, to maximum optimization, their automatic processes, interrupt conscious negative thoughts and arrive at a higher degree of "output performance" on command."This, again, sounds like brainwashing. This is not the way in which people should be using these treatments, and it is extremely dangerous as it can manipulate unsuspecting consumers into financial peril. People should not need to be programmed for this type of endeavor, and a doctor, which Travis Fox isn't, should not use their expertise for financial gain.
"For the past 25 years, his methodologies were reserved for the elites: professional athletes in golf, football, competitive fighting, high-net worth individuals and top corporations.
This "business opportunity" has nothing in common with the professions listed above. "The Ace Initiative" is trying to use false equivocation to say the training fromBut now you can benefit from them as well."
"Our ultimate vision is to empower our program alumni to build the businesses and lives of their dreams by leveraging our expertise, resources and vast business network."This statement is both vague and convoluted. Since "The Ace Initiative" is a "business" designed to advertise "The Ace Initiative", and subsequently sell an "Enagic" water ioninzing machine, the only way to "build the business" is to use "The Ace Initiative" so you can get more people to "build the business". In other words, in order to "leverage" their "expertise, resources and vast business network" to "build your business", you must promote "The Ace Initiative". This circular logic is used to confuse and obfuscate the reality of the scam.
"We invite you to explore how we can serve you in effecting a radical, positive change in your life today and look forward to meeting you online in our mastermind community and in person at one of our 2 or 7 day live events throughout the world."Translation: "The Ace Initiative" can't wait for you to sign-up and start promoting them on Facebook. They can't wait for you to start recruiting and getting people to watch their "webinar". They can't wait for you and the people you recruit to buy a useless "Enagic" water ionizing machine. They can't wait for you to spend your money so they can profit.
These quotes were taken from the front page of their website, which I'm not going to link since I don't promote scams, and none of it has anything to do with what "The Ace Initiative" is or what they promote. If I did not translate a lot of the vague and misleading jargon, people would not have a clue as to what this "program" is, how much it will cost, or how a person makes money. These details are consistently avoided by Brandon, and the rest of MLMers, because they want the opportunity to brainwash their recruits before explaining the terrible "opportunity". MLMers, like Brandon, want to focus on hype and misleading testimonials rather than the actual "opportunity", because the "opportunity" is not something to be excited about.
"The Ace Initiative", exactly like "Global Affiliate Zone" (The scam that taught Brandon), and "Team Phoenix Marketing (Brandon's first attempt at running the scam), is designed as a second layer to the MLM scam. This concept was started in Amway with organizations known as "Line of Sponsorhip" (LOS). Instead of signing up for Amway directly, a recruit has to sign up for this secondary organization and purchase their "tools", for the "opportunity" to purchase Amway products. "The Ace Initiative" has the exact same relationship with "Enagic". Instead of signing up as an "Enagic" distributor, a recruit is signing up for the "The Ace Initiative" and paying for their "tools" to help market "Enagic". They have made it even more convoluted by placing "Enagic" on the back burner and treating it as an auxiliary purchase for the "opportunity", but the concept remains the same. "The Ace Initiative" is a separate cost that offers nothing of material value for the "opportunity" to earn commissions by recruiting people into "Enagic".
*UPDATE*
This section is going to be regularly updated with comments from "The Ace Initiative" members.
"Kate Mueller" says:
"I am glad I joined The ACE Initiative because it’s nothing like you describe it in your review.
I made my decision based on facts and personal experience with the system, the people who have created it and others who are part of our amazing community."It's good to see Kate decided to read the review, address none of my points, and then blindly continue on her merry way. It seems the programming is quite strong.
Here is a comment from "Bryan Hodgson", one of the three founders and alleged "7-Figure Earner"
"2 things before moving forward with the allegations you have made against The Ace Initiative LLC:There are lots of issues with this threat, but I would first like to thank Mr. Hodgson for taking the time to be very creative in his attempt to scare me. If I were an amateur, I may actually consider this a very credible threat.
1.) False statements of facts that harm the reputation of an individual or business, aren’t protected under constitutional free speech provisions..
You in which have done the following:
A.) Published or otherwise broadcast an unprivileged, false statement of fact about The Ace Initiative LLC.
B.) Caused material harm to The Ace Initiative LLC by publishing or broadcasting said false statements of fact.
C.) Acted Negligently or with Actual Malice.
2.) We the founders of The Ace Initiative LLC. Will allow 24 hours to have the following blog post
(http://themlmsyndrome.blogspot.mx/2018/04/mlm-and-ace-initiativebrandon-odom-part.html?m=1)
To be take down otherwise further legal action will be taken against both Geoff Rey as well as Themlmsyndrome.blogspot.com and all entities subject to this matter.
If said request isn’t met the following conversation will be communicated from and only from the attorney’s who represent The Ace Initiative LLC."
Here are some glaring issues with his comment.
1. Starting a sentence with the number "2", instead of spelling it out, makes the comment look far less professional. It is clear this was hastily put together.
2. The first sentence doesn't make sense. Why would you move forward with my allegations? Shouldn't you be moving forward with your own allegations?
3. Which alleged statements were false? I'll be more than happy to correct the record.
4. Letter "A.)" is the exact same as "1.)"
5. What is "Material Harm"?
6. Good luck proving "C.)".
7. It's probably not smart to take legal action against an alias. Good luck finding "Geoff Rey".
8. Why wouldn't you have your attorneys contact me first? It doesn't make sense to make this kind of threat, unless you don't actually have attorneys.
Again, I have to give Mr. Hodgson credit for his creativity, but he is going to have to do a lot better than this. I'm sorry to burst your bubble Mr. Hodgson, but the blog post will remain where it is.
A comment from "Michael Coble":
"Hey Geoff, The things you are sharing are inappropriate and should not be on Facebook. Please take them down. I’m a humble school teacher with a wife with fibromyalgia who the product line does wonders for. I don’t know why on earth you would go out of your way to slander our online endeavors. I get being upset if someone wasn’t up front with you but We personally are 100% upfront about all costs and investment with everyone we speak to. I’ve never had a conversation with you and you leave a 1* review full of spite on my fan page? Please remove it."Ah, the old feel pity for me line. I don't care if you are a "humble school teacher" or a murderous gang member, you are perpetrating a fraud and you should be ashamed. I feel terrible that you have a position of influence over others, and hopefully those people do not fall prey to any of your schemes.
I'm also fairly certain you can't make the claim that these machines help with fibromyalgia. That is a violation of the FTC's rules and regulations about distributors making health claims.
Hopefully you aren't an English teacher, because nothing I have written would be considered slanderous. The correct term you are looking for is libel, which I also have not done.
I don't need to have a conversation with a fraudster like you. You MLMers are all the same.
I had a conversation with "Dr." Travis Fox, which overall was very pleasant. However, he is a seasoned snake-oil salesman, and he has learned it is better to keep things as pleasant as possible. Here is one comment that proved he isn't as pure as he may seem.
"The product itself help with autistic son who refused the drunk water regardless of “Filter” prior use."This is also a violation of the FTC's rules and regulations about distributors making health claims about their MLM product. This is one of the most dubious lines MLMers regularly make. Not only is there no science to support these claims, but they have a financial incentive to sell the product and they have no shame when it comes to weaponizing their children. Even if we take the premise that this machine worked for helping with autism, the fact remains that MLM is the worst possible method for selling the product, and they are trying to profit by appealing to the emotions of those that are sympathetic to the MLMers plight.
Any time an MLMer decides to weaponize the sick for their own self-gain, there should be an immediate red flag raised. The ulterior motives of these MLMers outweigh their concern for the sickly.
_________________________________________________________________________
Sources:
https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/selling-work-home-or-other-business-opportunity-revised-rule
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Affiliate_marketing
https://www.allamericanspeakers.com/celebritytalentbios/Dr.+Travis+Fox/6051
http://fakedoctorate.blogspot.com/2017/11/reader-feedback-on-travis-fox.html
http://fakedoctorate.blogspot.com/2013/04/attorney-for-travis-fox-speaks-out.html
http://fakedoctorate.blogspot.com/2012/11/travis-fox-fake-doctorate.html
Our ultimate vision is to empower our program alumni to build the businesses and lives of their dreams by leveraging our expertise, resources and vast business network
It's hard to believe that anyone would fall for this absurd "Ace Initiative," and its scam to sell Enagic's "water ionizing machines" to unsuspecting fools, along with a long series of educational materials. It's the typical MLM racket.
ReplyDeleteThe legal threat is pure bullshit. "Bryan Hodgson" doesn't address a single statement made in the original post, because he can't. All he can do is bluster about his attorneys.
Moreover, if his legal help is as grammatically illiterate as he is, I doubt that they could pass the bar exam.
Anonymous --
DeleteI completely agree about this being a "typical MLM racket". Nothing, in regard to "Team Phoenix" or "The Ace Initiative", is innovative, and both were plagiarized from "Global Affiliate Zone". As the saying goes, "No honor among thieves".
I actually called "Bryan Hodgson" out on his threat and his response was comical. He said something to the effect of, "This conversation is over you will be hearing from my attorneys". To which I replied, "How are they going to contact me if they don't know who I am?". Which was followed by his second scare attempt by looking up this website's registry -- which only showed Google's information. After the second scare tactic, I ended the conversation.
Again, I'll give him credit for attempting to be creative with the legal threat, but it was very poorly executed. These guys are going to need more practice if they are going to try and stop this blog.
Those “threats” were as pathetic as the MLM model itself. So many false claims here. Very misleading like the original team Phoenix thing was. Although, from the sounds of it, this will seem a lot more suspicious as the fees are higher (and now monthly), webinars are prerecorded, and the “community” still seems very cult like. I can’t see this lasting long (I guess once this collapses, they will throw another coat of paint on it, change a few names, and toss it out there again).
ReplyDeleteIts a system designed to confuse people, and in a way put them at ease that what they are doing isnt a scam (even though we all know what lurks beneath).
Anonymous --
DeleteI don't believe the fees changed. They were $99.00 a month in "Team Phoenix" and, according to the "new" version, the fee is $99.00 a month as well. Interestingly, they could have created any price tag, but they seem to really like the $99.00 number.
I also noticed these "live" webinars seem to be recorded. I even tried to watch a "live" one the other night and it never launched, which was hilarious because I still got an e-mail saying they were sad they missed me. These e-mails are also scripted and have a mechanism to adjust certain words to make them look personal. It isn't surprising this is phony as well, considering everything about this was lazily put together.
I also don't think this will last long. Once people figure this scam out, they won't fall for the exact same thing again.
I agree, this system is designed to confused to people. It is also designed to take their money and not look back. Once a person has paid into the system they immediately become expendable, and the only way to recoup their losses is to spread the virus.
I’m that same guy from your first team Phoenix post. Back when I nearly got scammed it used to be you paid the fee once and that was it. But how they get you is they lure you in, and then pressure you to make that coaching call (a lot of the site gets locked out until you do apparently). Although once you do, that fee isn’t refundable, and then you get pressured to buy a water machine.
DeleteThe monthly fee model will arouse more suspicion as many MLM’s use that model. Once that machine is bought though, I can imagine these guys leaving the person for dead and fending for themselves. Either that or make them buy more useless “marketing courses” or material like that.
Anonymous --
DeleteWelcome back! Thank you for the continued support and comments.
Thank you for adding your insight about the inner workings of the "Team Phoenix" and "The Ace Initiative" "trainings". That's an interesting note about the inability to get a refund once you purchase a coaching call. They conveniently do not mention that detail.
Yes, the "training" service charade is very popular. It was originally created by early, and very prolific, Amway MLMer "Dexter Yager". He made a large fortune by creating an "LOS" (Line of Sponsorship), and forced new members to pay him a monthly fee, tapes (eventually cd's), and conference tickets for the opportunity to participate in Amway. Not only were his products and services unnecessary, but other high-ranking MLM members began to take note and start their own factions with the same strategy. Eventually, they gained control of the admittance structure for Amway, and they forced Amway to make sure all new members signed up for an "LOS" system before participating. "The Ace Initiative" is at the starting stages of doing the same thing for "Enagic", but they will not get as far because "Enagic" will never be as big as Amway since people are more aware of the scheme.
I believe they will continue to force their members to pay the fees, regardless of whether they buy the "Enagic" machine, because that is part of the "business opportunity". I'm sure some of the members will smarten up and quit this stupid "system", but many will stay and pay for no reason.
OK, so you spend $99 a month to be in this "Ace Initiative" racket. But what exactly do you get for this sum of money? Is it just a membership-registration fee, or do they send you something? Does it allow you to watch some sort of thing on your computer screen, and thereby "learn"?
ReplyDeleteOne hundred bucks a month is almost $1200 per year. FOR WHAT?
Anonymous --
DeleteYou will receive "webinars" and a tutorial about creating Facebook advertisements for "The Ace Initiative". You will also be presented with the opportunity to buy an "Enagic" water ionizing machine, which will then give you the opportunity to recruit people and earn a commission when they sign up for "The Ace Initiative" and buy a water ionizing machine. There is no actual good "The Ace Initiative" provides, and the "service" is something you do not need to be an active part of "Enagic". They are an unnecessary middleman disguised as "trainers" for the sole purpose of extracting extra money.
In other words, you can buy one of those stupid Enagic water machines if you actually want one, without joining the "Ace Initiative."
ReplyDeleteThe "Ace Initiative" is simply a parasitical system for teaching you how to sell the water machines to other persons.
That is pure MLM racketeering.
Anonymous --
DeleteThat is exactly correct. "The Ace Initiative" is a group of "Enagic" distributors that decided to invent a new method for getting recruits to join the MLM. They do not have anything of value to offer, and they charge an extra fee that other "Enagic" distributors would not.
The "system" is simply a disguised added fee of the pay-to-play scheme. Instead of only paying for the "Enagic" water ionizing machine, they require you to also be a member of their "training" system. "The Ace Initiative" similar to the "LOS" systems from "Amway" have created a secondary fraud to line their pockets.
“MLM commonly uses this terminology to deceptively appear as something they are not.”
ReplyDeleteBoy does that ring a bell! If it’s not “affiliate marketing”, it is “entrepeneur”. Not every business person is an entrepeneur. Most definitions emphasize that an entrepeneur (related to the word entropy, meaning chaos) tries something untested, no set plan, and is risking a substatial capital investment. MLM without exception emphasizes tried and tested plan, and small investment, tonnes of support. If a recruit is for argument’s sake still a business person, using word entrepeneur, depending on the persons background knowledge, is straight deception and solid ignorance. Or rather it is my observation that people that have the education and intellect to know the meaning of these terms, don’t get a chance to stop and think. That goes for affiliate marketing as well.
If it’s not “entrepeneur” it is “passive income”. If not
that it is Net Profit.
MLM even corrupts the very the simplest
of all words, the verb “to be”. On
Youtube if I search for responses to the dreaded question “so how much are you making? Eric Worre suggests: “I DON’T
KNOW YET. I am still collecting”. (Because he does not the the fruit hos past prospecting efforts may still bear). As if no other business that routinely has to answer this question to investors, does
any prospecting, sales or marketing.
The question is asked in the present tense (implying the perfective [completed] aspect). Yet it is answered in the future perfect, which of course, nobody can confidently know.
MLM is a master of redefining terms. I ranted off topic, but it is amazing how in new “different” (this is the ONE) MLM’s the same themes repeat.
-kwaaikat
Hi Kwaaikat --
DeleteThanks for returning to the blog and bringing another awesome comment!
Their theft of terms like, "affiliate marketing", "direct sales", "entrepreneur", or even "business", are some of the most pervasive problems with the MLM pitch. Most people don't have a strong vocabulary, which means jargon can be used as an effective mean to stifle questioning. If someone can't understand the terms, then they are probably going to smile and nod in accordance to what is being stated. Nobody wants to look ignorant in an unfamiliar setting, which is something MLMers use to their advantage by inventing or stealing these terms.
I agree, MLM continues dress themselves up in different ways, but the underlying system remains the same. It's fascinating, in a bad way, how creative these hucksters can be. It would be nice if they used their creativity to provide an actual good or service for their community.
Hey there! I've been following your web site for a long time now and finally got
ReplyDeletethe courage to go ahead and give you a shout out
from Houston Tx! Just wanted to say keep up the good job!
Anonymous --
DeleteThank you for the compliment! This is the only form of payment I receive for this, so it is hugely appreciated! I hope you continue to enjoy the blog!
Kwaaikat makes some good points, as usual, but his etymology of the word "entrpreneur" is incorrect.
ReplyDeleteIt is a French borrowing that means "one who undertakes something, " and is from the verb "entreprendre," or to take in hand, or to begin to do. An entrepreneur is someone who starts something, who tries to get something going, or who generates something new.
It has nothing at all to do with "entropy," which is a Greek derivative from "en tropos," a phrase meaning "into transformation," or the changes that any system undergoes when it slowly runs out of energy.
Thanks Anonymous 19Apr, you’re right! (I actually checked, did not want to assume again). You’ve saved me from future embarassment. Luckily, I don’t think I’ve ever used the etymology, or rather my prior understanding of it, as part of my argument in conversation.
DeleteThe point about the abuse of terms still apply, and it very much extends to entrepeneur, but I’ll be more careful.
Of course there is no shame for a good business person to not be an entrepeneur, but MLM if it argument’s sake worked as explained, is specifically sold on attributes such as “you’re not alone in this”, “it’s cheap to get started”, and “it’s a beaten path following a path that works”. Again assuming these are true, it’s hardly possible to describe a business (assuming it is a business) that contrasts more with common definitions one would get of an entrepeneur.
“entrepeneur” just sounds good as do all the terms mentioned. To be fair to those in MLM (and as John Doe said about vocabulary) most enthusiasts don’t know the terms well enough, so when they use the terms it’s more ignorance (or not thinking about it due to the hype) than dishonesty.
Again, thanks for pointing out my error, and thanks for the compliment.
-Kwaaikat
Sorry off topic but if you want to see an IBO that is fully indoctrinated by Amway and WWDB, please visit this link:
ReplyDeletehttps://amthrax.wordpress.com/2010/07/12/never-say-i-didnt-tell-you-brad-duncan-on-his-brother-greg-duncan/#comment-44620
I'm taking apart his arguments and the name calling just started.
Why does MLM get such a bad rep? I have been successful with an MLM business so I just don't get it. I've never heard of any of these but saw ACE initiative on a friend's facebook post and saw this. I think the main problem with MLM is people give up easily. I'm not saying this is or isn't a scam because I know nothing more about it than what I've read here but the use of the word scam simply because it's MLM I think is wrong. I've seen actual scams... sign up push a button make money... get nothing from it but upsells... but MLM isn't a scam. It's not for everyone, but not a scam.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous said, "Why does MLM get such a bad rep?"
DeleteMLM gets a "bad rep" for two reasons. First, no MLM has ever followed the rules and regulations set forth by the FTC. That's a big problem, and something that should not be overlooked. Second, the way in which MLM is pitched is incredibly deceiving. People act as though it is an easy undertaking, and the pitch usually suggests a very unrealistic expectation for success. Yes, there are some people that say MLM may not be the key to getting a mansion and fancy car, but for the most part, especially at the big functions, that is exactly the idea they implant in prospect's heads.
Anonymous said, "I have been successful with an MLM business so I just don't get it."
Again, two things here. First, anecdotal evidence isn't very good, and there will always be an exception to the rule. We can say with 99% confidence that people will fail in MLM, which means you may be the lucky 1% that was successful. Second, your success came at the failure of others. Due to the way in which a person becomes "successful" in MLM, it requires many people to fail. Why? Because the only way to be successful in MLM is through recruitment, and if you are only successful because you were able to bring more people into the fold, then eventually there will be people that can't do the same. That is a mathematical certainty.
Anonymous said, "I've never heard of any of these but saw ACE initiative on a friend's facebook post and saw this. I think the main problem with MLM is people give up easily."
No, the main problem with MLM is the way in which a person profits. They do not profit from a good or service, but rather from selling the "business opportunity". The more the "business opportunity" is pitched, the less opportunity actually exists to replicate the "opportunity". That is the fundamental flaw with MLM, not "people give up easily". It is actually a good thing "people give up easily", because they are able to save themselves a lot of heartache.
Anonymous said, "I'm not saying this is or isn't a scam because I know nothing more about it than what I've read here but the use of the word scam simply because it's MLM I think is wrong."
Except you are saying you think it isn't a scam, since you said you think MLM is not a scam. There is some serious dissonance in this comment.
Again, MLM is a scam, and it continues to be a scam that violates the rules and regulations of the FTC.
Anonymous said, "I've seen actual scams... sign up push a button make money...get nothing from it but upsells... but MLM isn't a scam. It's not for everyone, but not a scam."
This seems to be a recurring trend of people saying "MLM isn't a scam", and then not defending why it isn't a scam. I can say words too, but if I don't defend those words, then nobody will care about them. Your argument that MLM isn't a scam, because you think it isn't a scam is meaningless.
I'll fix your last statement. MLM isn't for 99% of people, and because MLM continues to violate the rules and regulations of the FTC, it is a scam.
Love what you're doing here. Exposing these guys and the programs they run.
DeleteEasy for them... they create the program, make majority of the money from it, then get everyone to spend their own money on ads putting more money in their pocket. Then only to be pressured into spending 5k on a shitty water system they probably dont want or need.
Worst part? They promote it as affiliate and putting the product in front of the people that want it.
Smh
Anonymous --
DeleteThese charlatans have no moral compass. They will do anything to confuse, obfuscate, befuddle, and convolute the entire "opportunity". They know if they pitch the "opportunity" accurately that nobody will join.
so you are one of those losers of network marketing and now your telling ACE Initiative is scam. Because you were weak enough to quit as soon as you faced a hardship and now you want everyone believe it's scam to relieve your poor spirit....
ReplyDeleteStarting your own business is not for the faint-hearted. It requires enormous amounts of resilience, grit, perseverance, and most of all, belief in yourself.
Losers like you will always be a loser in ANY kind of business. because you are employee-minded. the best thing you can do is to work for some one else and build other's dreams...
Saina Kh said, "so you are one of those losers of network marketing and now your telling ACE Initiative is scam."
DeleteI have written multiple posts about "Enagic", Brandon Odom, and the "business coaching frauds". My experience with "network marketing" has nothing to do with any of these groups. I have used research and my ability to critically analyze the "opportunity" to form my conclusions.
Saina Kh said, "Because you were weak enough to quit as soon as you faced a hardship and now you want everyone believe it's scam to relieve your poor spirit...."
Your ad hominems hold no value here. If you want to criticize a particular point I have made, then I will gladly entertain that with a thoughtful rebuttal.
Saina Kh said, "Starting your own business is not for the faint-hearted. It requires enormous amounts of resilience, grit, perseverance, and most of all, belief in yourself."
I couldn't agree more. "MLM", "Network Marketing", "Direct selling", "Relational Marketing", or whatever other nonsensical term you use to describe this type of "business" is not entrepreneurial. It is a thinly veiled pyramid scheme and should not be equated to any other type of authentic business.
Saina Kh said, "Losers like you will always be a loser in ANY kind of business."
Again, ad hominems don't hold weight here. You don't know anything about me, therefore your generalizations about me are worthless.
Saina Kh said, "because you are employee-minded.
"Employee-minded" is a nonsense term invented by Kiyosaki. This is propaganda used by MLMers to obfuscate the reality that you are an "employee" of the MLM.
Saina Kh said, "the best thing you can do is to work for some one else and build other's dreams..."
This is interesting because anyone that joins MLM is directly "building other's dreams" that came before them. It's as though MLMs and "business coaching frauds" are projecting their own issues onto authentic businesses and people.
Ah so you even blocked the comment section and the comment will be shown after approval hah?
ReplyDeleteso true...haha
So you will only accept comments from losers like yourself who accept what you say... I see!!
Saina Kh said, "Ah so you even blocked the comment section and the comment will be shown after approval hah?"
DeleteI haven't blocked anything. I welcome all dissenting opinions, no matter how vitriolic they may be.
Saina Kh said, "so true...haha
So you will only accept comments from losers like yourself who accept what you say... I see!!"
I accepted your comments within three hours of you posting. I have accepted comments from members of Travis Fox, Bryan Hodsgon, Brandon Odom, and Tyson Zahner. You have quite the ego if you think I would reject your comments over theirs.
Saina Kh is the typical MLM asshole. He spouts all the expected jargon and cliches.
ReplyDeleteresearch and your ability to critically analyze the "opportunity???
ReplyDeleteSo you analyze a program without even trying it and use your biases to get into conclusion?
and guess what? surprisingly ALL the MLM companies are scams right?!
So you don't have ANY experience in MLM?!
what about entrepreneurship? ANY experience in this one??
Saina Kh said, "So you analyze a program without even trying it and use your biases to get into conclusion?"
DeleteThis is almost correct. You left out some key details in my process for forming my conclusions.
First, I read the rules and regulations from the FTC and how they describe proper MLM business practices. They state:
"Not all multilevel marketing plans are legitimate. If the money you make is based on your sales to the public, it may be a legitimate multilevel marketing plan. If the money you make is based on the number of people you recruit and your sales to them, it’s probably not. It could be a pyramid scheme. Pyramid schemes are illegal, and the vast majority of participants lose money."
https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/multilevel-marketing
To date, not one MLM has ever proven that the majority of their sales come from people outside of the organization.
Second, I look at the court cases in which the FTC has gone against MLMs. In every court case the FTC has won by either getting the MLM shut down (ex. "Zeekrewards", "Fortune Hi-Tech Marketing", "Burnlounge"), or forced the MLM to pay a huge fine in the form of a "settlement" (ex. FTC v. Amway, FTC v. Herbalife), or some combination of the two (ex. FTC vs. Vemma). Again, not one MLM has ever left litigation without a punishment.
Third, I look at the new "opportunity", such as "The Ace Initiative", and see if it is any different than any of the other MLM scams. The answer in this situation is no.
Fourth, I form an opinion that is accompanied with a "bias" against these organizations due to their inability to operate legally.
It's important to not skip those other steps that helped me arrive at my conclusion.
Saina Kh said, "and guess what? surprisingly ALL the MLM companies are scams right?!"
Sarcasm aside, you are absolutely correct on this one.
Saina Kh said, "So you don't have ANY experience in MLM?!
what about entrepreneurship? ANY experience in this one??"
First, I would argue I have more experience than most with MLM since I have taken it upon myself to read and write about it for years. Second, my experience with entrepreneurship has nothing to do with MLM or my position. Third, this is a straw man argument that holds no weight. I have never jumped off a bridge, but I can tell you it isn't a good idea.
so tell about yourself instead of being JOHN DOE and hiding behind a fake identity tell everyone what do you do? what have you achieved in life?
ReplyDeleteSaina Kh said, "so tell about yourself instead of being JOHN DOE and hiding behind a fake identity tell everyone what do you do? what have you achieved in life?"
DeleteThis is another straw man argument. My identity, my financial situation, my employment, or any other part of my life has nothing to do with MLM being a scam. This is the same bad tactic you used in your last comment.
haha... so you don't tell anything about yourself or you DON"T have anything to tell because you have NO experience in MLM, no experience in entrepreneurship, No experience in running a business and ALL you know is MLM being scam... so TRUE!!!
ReplyDeleteI won't discuss with you anymore... I'll discuss with someone who is at least in the same level with me.
I work in ACE and earn at least 10k a month, I have 3 years of experience in MLM and I have been running a business before in sales and marketing director position.
You are a waste of time...
Saina Kh said, "so you don't tell anything about yourself or you DON"T have anything to tell because you have NO experience in MLM, no experience in entrepreneurship, No experience in running a business and ALL you know is MLM being scam... so TRUE!!!"
DeleteI already explained how I have more experience than most with MLM. I'm not sure why you are trying to use this straw man, it still has nothing to do with "The Ace Initiative" being a scam.
Saina Kh said, "I won't discuss with you anymore... I'll discuss with someone who is at least in the same level with me."
What have you "discussed" so far? You have formed bad arguments and called me names. I suppose you should focus on talking with kindergartners since they are on your "level".
Saina Kh said, "I work in ACE and earn at least 10k a month, I have 3 years of experience in MLM and I have been running a business before in sales and marketing director position."
I'm going to call bull on your claim of "10k a month". "The Ace Initiative" has barely existed for six months. Also, you shouldn't be making money from "The Ace Initiative", but rather "Enagic" and selling overpriced water ionizing machines. If you are making money from "The Ace Initiative", then that is definitely a pyramid scheme since you are being paid to recruit people into a program designed to find and recruit new people.
If you have all of this experience with running a legitimate business, then you should not need "The Ace Initiative". You could just sign up for "Enagic" and sell their water ionizing machines. Any smart business person would understand it is not good to spend an extra $99.00 a month for something they don't need, unless that part of the pyramid is actually paying them money.
Saina Kh said, "You are a waste of time..."
The feeling is mutual.
Saina Kh claims to make 10K a month selling those stupid "Enagic" water machines?
ReplyDeleteWho the hell does he think he's kidding?
Anyone who wants an "Enagic" water machine can buy one directly from the company, without going through the idiotic ACE system. ACE is just a parasitical racket devised by some desperate Enagic dealers to generate MLM cash flow for themselves.
It's sad that your only defense to making false statements is keeping yourself hidden and anonymous. You basically can say whatever you want about anyone with impunity. If you are so confident in your claims being true, why are you unwilling to prove them in court?
ReplyDeleteMeanwhile, your talking about lack of professionalism while using "blogspot" for your blog. The tool of amateur hour.
All fun and games until you get blogspot gets served a subpoena.
Anonymous said, "It's sad that your only defense to making false statements is keeping yourself hidden and anonymous."
DeleteWow, that's some serious irony! You are railing against me for being anonymous while commenting anonymously. Spectacular.
Which part of my post contains "false statements"? I'll gladly fix it if you make a specific reference.
Anonymous said, "You basically can say whatever you want about anyone with impunity."
Correct, it's called the first amendment. Have you watched the news and their constant rhetoric against their political adversaries? As long as the Bill of Rights exists, you are allowed to say whatever you want about whomever you want.
Anonymous said, "If you are so confident in your claims being true, why are you unwilling to prove them in court?"
This statement is really bizarre. You do not have to justify yourself by going to court. That has never been a thing, and has never been a conversation point on this blog.
Anonymous said, "Meanwhile, your talking about lack of professionalism while using "blogspot" for your blog. The tool of amateur hour."
That's a really random attack against Google. I'm not sure why anyone would refer to a Google product as "amateur hour", but considering they are one of the most powerful companies in the world, we'll chalk this up to blind anger.
Anonymous said, "All fun and games until you get blogspot gets served a subpoena."
Good luck with that one. I eagerly await your results in going after Google.
That's OK saina h. HIS name is Ethan vanderbuilt or so his facebook page says!
ReplyDeleteI'm definitely not Ethan. That's an interesting conspiracy.
DeleteThank you for posting this information. True or not, it definitely changed my mind on joining this venture. I watched one webinar explaining the company and what they do. However, I was left confused, scratching my head, but wanting to make a seven figure income like a lot of the people have. Let me reiterate...I WAS FIXING TO SIGN UP FOR $99/MO WITH SOMETHING THAT I HAD NO IDEA WHAT WAS GOING ON!! I feel like it is almost a trap...confuse the people enough to where they are brainwashed to join and then they piss away money. Wow. Always be skeptical.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous --
DeleteThank you for your feedback! I'm glad the blog was able to help clarify the confusion.
The "webinars" are designed for one purpose, hype. People feed off of the hype and make non-critical, emotional decisions. This is the only way their schemes work, because if they are approaching people that are rational and calm, they will understand this "system" is a scam.
It is definitely a trap. That is an excellent way to describe these "webinars". They spin a web of lies designed for the sole purpose of extracting cash from their recruits.
Good luck to you in the future!
I am so glad I found your blog @John Doe! Although I feel embarrassed that I was silly enough to fall for the seven figure income ploy, I am within the 14 days and they better damn well give me my money back! I am shaking my head at myself because although I had a feeling something wasn't quite right I still let myself believe in it. Haha!! Teaches me to do my research a little bit sooner!!! So freaking embarrassing!
ReplyDeleteAnonymous --
DeleteI also hope you are able to get your money back. These people are con-men, so they may not honor their own agreements. If they don't, you can always challenge the charge on your credit card. The credit card company usually takes the side of the consumer.
Good luck, and I'm glad you were able to find this now before you lost more money. It definitely could have been worse!
Are any of these Affiliate Marketing type ads legit? Or is it all just wishful thinking?
ReplyDeleteHi Anonymous --
DeleteAffiliate Marketing is a legitimate business model. The problem is many MLM companies have taken that name and tried to apply it to themselves. They tend to use real or legitimate business names to help mask themselves.
Hey get a clue. Enaguc is not even a mlm company
ReplyDeleteUnknown --
DeletePerhaps you should get a clue. If your payment structure has multiple levels based on the amount of people you recruit, then that is a MLM. Last I checked, Enagic has lots of different tiers based on the number of people in your "business".
You may want to do more research.
"Unknown" can't even spell "Enagic," and he comes here to lecture us.
ReplyDeleteWe have been sucked into this to. We are in more debt than when we started out. They sell you the machines and a "lifestyle" on how to use the secret and self development b/s and how it can make you a 6 or 7 figure earner monthly. How do we go about nailing these people. People are so brainwashed by them that if you dare put a negative comment on there they block you. So many young families being scammed and brainwashed. Leaving their full time jobs for empty promises. No wonder some of the top earners moved to far away places to hide. Very suspicious if you ask me.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous --
DeleteI'm sorry to hear this scam has harmed you. They are very good at using emotions and hype to disarm consumers, and unfortunately they do not have a moral compass. These people don't care about the people they hurt in the pursuit of money, power, and fame.
I'm glad you were able to get away from the nonsense, and hopefully you can share your experience with others so they don't get harmed as well.
Yup I paid the 100 bucks to buy more from them then get more ppl to do what i did once I'm done and that person they got the money out of you and your left trying to get someone to do the same as you make no money trying to get ppl to do this ridiculous endeavour.your doing to much for them yea scam.
ReplyDeleteSo glad I founds this...I too have paid my $99.00 but it's a whole different group..Not GAZ, or ACE, or Team Pheonix...BUT it's the same Enagic MLM. I have even had my coaching call. What stood out to me was in that call, my mentor said "You are selling the business, don't even mention Enagic or the water system, you are selling the lifestyle, the opportunity" - red flag 1...Umm actually you ARE selling a product. The Trifecta I was pushed to, was $11,387 with taxes and shipping, with the promise of mid five figure income within 6 months, continuously....sounds pretty fricken awesome!! BUT how do you claim this income? I couldn't get an answer as to what income form I would receive for the commissions - red flag 2. I get it, the economy isn't the greatest and people are struggling. Everybody is looking for ways to make more money, supplement their income, have a retirement fund, etc. But with that said, who in a not so great financial position has that kind of money sitting around, who is going to buy from you? Power to the people who have success in the Enagic MLM business, my Facebook feed is now 90% ads for this. When are people going to realize that the market will get saturated. What happens when Enagic changes its compensation structure, or stops giving these high compensation level bonuses? I mean there has to be an end, there is always an end. Those bonuses don't stick around for a lifetime....All those people who left their jobs for a couple, maybe few years will have to re-enter the job force, and be starting all over. It's hard enough for professionals who have children to re-enter the work force after taking time to raise their children. Okay maybe I am ranting, but I feel like people need to take a step back and analyze it a bit more before being blinded by the success you are promised. Ask the real life, hard questions...what happens when it ends or changes??! I couldn't get any valid or straight up answers to my VERY REAL questions. I was curious, and yes the promise of more money and a better life sounds great. Usually I know right from wrong, and I can make decisions quickly based on the facts. But this one had me researching so much, for valid and obvious reasons - I did find this blog didn't I!! I feel better about my decision not to pursue - even though I was pretty much at that decision already, the additional info I found here was the cherry on top!
ReplyDeleteAnonymous -- Thank you for your comment! I'm glad you were able to avoid this scam. The pitch you were given is very typical of MLMs, and it shows they all operate in the same manner. It isn't about the product, it's about the pyramid.
DeleteI looked up the link to FTC
ReplyDeletehttps://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/multilevel-marketing
It says nothing about all MLMs being a scam or fraudulent or whatever.
It tells you what to look for in a legitimate vs illegitimate MLMs.
ACE initiative seems legitimate in that the vendor can make a majority of income from sales to the public rather than from recruiting new members or selling products to members...
As far as income claims go, i have not yet verified. But i have been advised from my "sponsor" to expect to put in a solid 2 years of 1-2 hours per day to achieve a passive level of income, and sales can be made within the first two months of joining (if you have previous experience with online affiliate marketing)
Anonymous --
DeleteYou said, "It says nothing about all MLMs being a scam or fraudulent or whatever.
It tells you what to look for in a legitimate vs illegitimate MLMs."
That's half-true. They do go through and say that MLMs have significant issues in regards to their compensation structures. The former FTC chair also had to be as politically correct as possible in her description of "Herbalife" after their settlement. She said, "We have not determined Herbalife not to be a pyramid scheme". This basically leaves the context to be implied, rather than to be explicitly spelled out.
The main reason for this vagueness is to not specifically violate any terms of a settlement, and because there is no specific blanket law that condemns MLM. It's very frustrating, and hopefully there will be a change in the future.
You said, "ACE initiative seems legitimate in that the vendor can make a majority of income from sales to the public rather than from recruiting new members or selling products to members..."
Yes, every MLM technically has the opportunity to sell to the public, and if they can prove that 70% of each "distributors" sales are going to the public and the first 10 customers they sell to are not involved in the business, then it is a legal operation. However, I have never seen an instance in which these standards have been upheld, and common training is to suggest it is better to sign the person up so they can make a commission on any future sales of the products. This is why they are highly problematic.
You said, "As far as income claims go, i have not yet verified. But i have been advised from my "sponsor" to expect to put in a solid 2 years of 1-2 hours per day to achieve a passive level of income, and sales can be made within the first two months of joining (if you have previous experience with online affiliate marketing)"
There is no way to quantify success based on these silly metrics. You will only get a return based on the efforts you put in and the consistency you maintain with those efforts. I don't know anyone in the workforce that does well with 1-2 hours a day of effort. Let's apply some logic and see if it makes sense as to whether they are telling the truth or not.