Today's blog post is about a recent group of anarchists, Antifa ("Anti-Fascists") and how they share the same amount of hatred as MLMers for anyone that does not share their same stream of consciousness. The amount of vitriol MLMers spew online when someone opposes their business, is the same virulent response Antifa has for people attempting to speak about something they do not support. Antifa, much like MLMers, do not like the idea of free speech, because it is damaging to their mind-numbing cultic belief systems.
Fascism: a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
Antifa espouses a bitter hatred for the "right" (conservatism) and are well known for their riots on college campuses. The most prolific riot was on the UC Berkeley campus (Cal) as Milo Yiannopoulos, a self proclaimed "provacateur", was forced to cancel his speaking engagement because of an anti-right riot. This later turned into a hot bed for a new extremist group called "Antifa" to cause more riots against the "Right" in Berkeley, which includes a recent riot against the "Patriots rally" on April 15th 2017 . Since the Cal riot it has become extremely unsafe to hold a position other than extreme "leftism" in this area, and this sentiment has spread to other liberal areas as well.
Antifa wants to disenfranchise anyone that has a different platform or has a different set of thoughts from their own. They want to censor people's rights to speak publicly with others about controversial subjects and wedge issues that are not supporting their position. They fear the spoken word of anyone that challenges their narrative, and they respond to that fear with the highest degree of anger and violence. This group hates the idea of free speech and wants everyone to have groupthink. They have created new terms such as "Hate Speech" and "Islamophobia" to create a limit on people's ability to talk about terrorism. Antifa is aggressively destroying a basic foundation of America that was created to combat the limitations imposed by the U.K.
MLMers also hate free speech and regularly combat the internet bloggers and their research. They have the same hypocritical nature about not speaking "Negatively", except for when it suits their needs. They utilize powerful psychological techniques to impose their narrative on unsuspecting consumers and gradually turn them into groupthinkers. They work diligently to eliminate any presence of a differing opinion and will go as far as to recommend shutting our everything else. They do not want MLM downlines to use the internet for news and research, they do not want MLM downlines to have relationships outside of members in the MLM, they do not want MLM downlines to have relationships with family members that oppose MLM, and they do not MLM downlines to have distractions, such as jobs, activities, or friends, outside of the MLM. They will create a new narrative based on one sole purpose, to recruit, but they will tell their downline their main objective is to help them get rich and live the "Good Life" (Tai Lopez). MLMers have a history of violence as well, because the divide they create between themselves and the rest of the world becomes very intense. After an MLM downline has been molded into a perfect member, they may resort to violence as the people who oppose their views become less and less tolerable. There are stories of MLMers acting out violently at home with their spouses and children from other blogs, because the people at home didn't fit the narrative.
MLM, as a whole, is just as cult-like and evil as Antifa. They have ruined millions of people's lives and bank accounts for greed. They don't care who they hurt or how badly they hurt them, and once they are done extracting what they can from a person, they will toss that person to the curb and let them fend for themselves. They are not a support system, they are not a group of "Free Thinkers", they are not introducing you to the best opportunity life has to offer, they are not introducing you to the "Business of the 21st Century", but rather introducing you to a mob, a cult of personality, a "Criminogenic Syndicate" (Brear).
Fascism: a political philosophy, movement, or regime (such as that of the Fascisti) that exalts nation and often race above the individual and that stands for a centralized autocratic government headed by a dictatorial leader, severe economic and social regimentation, and forcible suppression of opposition
Antifa espouses a bitter hatred for the "right" (conservatism) and are well known for their riots on college campuses. The most prolific riot was on the UC Berkeley campus (Cal) as Milo Yiannopoulos, a self proclaimed "provacateur", was forced to cancel his speaking engagement because of an anti-right riot. This later turned into a hot bed for a new extremist group called "Antifa" to cause more riots against the "Right" in Berkeley, which includes a recent riot against the "Patriots rally" on April 15th 2017 . Since the Cal riot it has become extremely unsafe to hold a position other than extreme "leftism" in this area, and this sentiment has spread to other liberal areas as well.
Antifa wants to disenfranchise anyone that has a different platform or has a different set of thoughts from their own. They want to censor people's rights to speak publicly with others about controversial subjects and wedge issues that are not supporting their position. They fear the spoken word of anyone that challenges their narrative, and they respond to that fear with the highest degree of anger and violence. This group hates the idea of free speech and wants everyone to have groupthink. They have created new terms such as "Hate Speech" and "Islamophobia" to create a limit on people's ability to talk about terrorism. Antifa is aggressively destroying a basic foundation of America that was created to combat the limitations imposed by the U.K.
MLMers also hate free speech and regularly combat the internet bloggers and their research. They have the same hypocritical nature about not speaking "Negatively", except for when it suits their needs. They utilize powerful psychological techniques to impose their narrative on unsuspecting consumers and gradually turn them into groupthinkers. They work diligently to eliminate any presence of a differing opinion and will go as far as to recommend shutting our everything else. They do not want MLM downlines to use the internet for news and research, they do not want MLM downlines to have relationships outside of members in the MLM, they do not want MLM downlines to have relationships with family members that oppose MLM, and they do not MLM downlines to have distractions, such as jobs, activities, or friends, outside of the MLM. They will create a new narrative based on one sole purpose, to recruit, but they will tell their downline their main objective is to help them get rich and live the "Good Life" (Tai Lopez). MLMers have a history of violence as well, because the divide they create between themselves and the rest of the world becomes very intense. After an MLM downline has been molded into a perfect member, they may resort to violence as the people who oppose their views become less and less tolerable. There are stories of MLMers acting out violently at home with their spouses and children from other blogs, because the people at home didn't fit the narrative.
MLM, as a whole, is just as cult-like and evil as Antifa. They have ruined millions of people's lives and bank accounts for greed. They don't care who they hurt or how badly they hurt them, and once they are done extracting what they can from a person, they will toss that person to the curb and let them fend for themselves. They are not a support system, they are not a group of "Free Thinkers", they are not introducing you to the best opportunity life has to offer, they are not introducing you to the "Business of the 21st Century", but rather introducing you to a mob, a cult of personality, a "Criminogenic Syndicate" (Brear).
I agree, they are very similar. It always seems to me that people who favor censorship do so because they are unable to defend their beliefs on an even playing field. Free speech and criticism is very corrosive to their beliefs because they are inherently illogical, lacking evidence, and/or just totally defy common sense. Hence, they need the bubble of censorship to protect them from criticism. I dare say that MLMs are inherently totalitarian due to the control these things have over members lives.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous,
DeleteThank you for your comment! I love the fact that you use the term "bubble" to describe the world they live in and the censorship they want to have. A bubble is perfect because it can only last for a finite amount of time and as it expands it gets weaker and weaker. These pro-censorship people never seem to understand that taking away a person's right to information can't last forever and usually ends with a complete severance from the thing providing the censorship.
The idea that they are "protecting" people from the "negativity" or "evil" of the outside perspective is a thin excuse for promoting brainwashing. There will be some hardcore adherents that won't separate from the cause because their cognitive dissonance won't allow it, but most eventually see through it and make a major change to leave the organization.
I believe we are seeing this now with current events in the U.S. as people continue to escape the "Democratic" party. These "Neoliberals" promoting war, censorship, and gun control are becoming less popular because people, in general, want to make these decisions for themselves, and don't need some group to tell them what they can and can't do. The "democrats" are imploding the same way MLMs do once people stop buying into the rhetoric and lies.
"I believe we are seeing this now with current events in the U.S. as people continue to escape the "Democratic" party. These "Neoliberals" promoting war, censorship, and gun control are becoming less popular because people, in general, want to make these decisions for themselves, and don't need some group to tell them what they can and can't do. The "democrats" are imploding the same way MLMs do once people stop buying into the rhetoric and lies. "
ReplyDeleteBoth major parties are in turmoil, but the infighting among the Democrats after this latest congressional election defeat, on top of losing the presidential election, may tear the party to shreds. They were already eating each other alive before this latest thrashing, especially on college campuses, but it seems the far left is now seeking nothing less than the annihilation of the more moderate leftists. I've never seen anything like this before. The Democratic party is sinking like the Titanic and they're too busy fighting each other to save themselves. It seems only a few moderates are heading for the lifeboats.
So many bubbles to burst, so little time.
Anonymous,
DeleteI believe the self-cannibalization of the democratic party was imminent once the party platform changed from promoting more individual freedoms to promoting group division through aggressive condemnation of non-radical adherence. As the demands for conformity, adherence, and anger against the "other" grew, the less the group could hold its cohesion as more and more people would fail to meet the qualifications of a perfect member.
I don't believe this is as uncommon as you may think. As groups begin to form and create an identity they start relatively amorphous. However, once a group begins to solidify and generate a real sense of self, then they will also better define the ideas and people they wish to keep away.
I believe this happens in MLM all the time. I witnessed it when I was propositioned for WWDB in Amway. They tried to create new rules for my personal life and wanted me to leave my fiance at the time (now wife), because I needed to find a more "ideal" person to grow the business with. Instead of forming a larger group by trying to work with both of us, they immediately went to potentially forcing me out because I wasn't going to fit every rule and potentially have a wife outside of the business.
The Antifa scum are extremely vicious and violent, very much like the Nazi thugs in the 1920s and 30s who would beat up those who disagreed with them. The fact that Antifa types always wear ski masks and other covers for their faces shows that they are gutless cowards.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous,
DeleteThey are a modern day domestic terrorist group. The Bill of Rights is under constant threat from the government, but it would seem we have "Citizens" that also do not like the Constitution and everything this country was founded upon.
Gentlemen - It was Adolf Hitler who observed that:
Delete'The great strength of the totalitarian state is that it forces those who fear it to imitate it.'
However, as ever Hitler's statement is simplistic and misleading; for it would be far more accurate to say that when faced with totalitarian regimes run by closed-logic fictitious narratives that prohibit thinking, the tendency has been for many of their opponents to stop thinking out of fear and hatred, when the way to oppose totalitarianism successfully is to think.
Dr. Alan Mathison Turing is universally recognised as a giant figure in history - a brilliant mathematician, logician, codebreaker, computer scientist and major contributor to the Allies' victory during WWII.
Following on from work he began in 1941, in 1950, Dr. Turing published a paper, 'Computing Machinery and Intelligence,' in which he discussed the existing philosophical question of whether machines can think. He then proposed a test, in the form of a blind question and answer game, where computers would be used to try to convince humans that they were not engaging with machines, but with other humans. Thus, despite its appearance, the 'Turing Test' is not a high-brow parlour-game or even a scientific experiment to determine whether machines can think, but a rudimentary, logical test of whether an artificial mind can be made to appear to have the same cognitive capacity as the human mind.
In recent years, various people have suggested ways in which the 'Turing Test' can be reversed, but, as far as I am aware, no one has yet suggested that Dr. Turing's celebrated thoughts on artificial intelligence, can also be applied to the study of the cult/totalitarian phenomenon; for, due to their incapacity to engage with external reality, the inflexible core-adherents of totalistic cults have often been compared to robots. However, the way that exploitative, self-perpetuating ritual belief systems bait, trap and enslave their prey, by reflecting common human instinctual desires (prosperity, health, happiness, freedom, security, etc.) as being obtainable in exchange for absolute subservience, can also be compared to a phenomenon which Dr. Turing did not live to witness - computer viruses. Had Dr. Turing been able to continue his work, he might have eventually felt the need to propose a rudimentary, logical test of whether an artificial mind can be made to appear to have the same ego-related capacity to become delusional as the human mind; for although cult adherents insist that no one is controlling them and that they are excercising free-will, nonetheless, illogically, and without exception, they all see the world in mechanical two-dimensional terms ('negative vs positive', 'us vs them' , 'good vs evil' , 'winners vs losers' , etc. ), communicate in code-like thought-stopping language and obey their de facto programmers without question (no matter what suffering this entails).
David,
DeleteYour post reminded me of the quote from Eleanor Roosevelt,
“A mature person is one who does not think only in absolutes, who is able to be objective even when deeply stirred emotionally, who has learned that there is both good and bad in all people and in all things, and who walks humbly and deals charitably with the circumstances of life, knowing that in this world no one is all-knowing and therefore all of us need both love and charity.”
If a person has to deal entirely in absolutes, then there is no difference between them and a machine. If you are programmed to give a specific output for each individual input, then you are the very product of your programmer.
It is frustrating, because, as you have stated, "for although cult adherents insist that no one is controlling them and that they are excercising free-will, nonetheless, illogically, and without exception, they all see the world in mechanical two-dimensional terms...". Therefore, people are making the conscious choice, whether they realize the problems or not, to shut down their faculties that make them human. Without the ability to make critical decisions on a case by case basis, we are no different from any programmable machine.
From my point of view antifa and neonazi movement fall very close to Scientology craziness, with nazis being first and antifa right behind them. After them comes MLM lunacy.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous,
DeleteI've tried not to create lists like that anymore because it gives a certain level of acceptance to the "lesser" crimes. I'm not trying to suggest that all crimes are created equally, but when you make comparisons it does inherently make one more severe than another which can lead people to believe it is more acceptable.
With all of that being said, I believe "Nazis" and "Antifa" are the same breed. They are both violent organizations that have been created by a government funded propaganda engine. Antifa hasn't had the opportunity to commit as much violence as Nazis, but they both fall under the category of domestic terrorist groups.
The purpose of Antifa, as was the case with the Nazis, is to silence all dissent in the public sphere. In other words, according to Antifa you can think whatever you like privately, but you cannot express it publicly in speech, print, or any other medium that reaches out to an audience wider than your close friends or family.
ReplyDeleteLike all ideologies, Antifa and Nazism are really religious belief systems that are utterly intolerant of any dissenting viewpoint that doesn't fit in with Received Public Orthodoxy. Antifa's view is that you cannot make any public statement against politically correct opinion without being shouted down, harassed, or (as in Charles Murray's most recent experience) being beaten up and sent to the hospital. This is EXACTLY what Nazi thugs did to non-Nazi Germans who dared to speak out against Hitler.
The fact that Antifa is widely supported and cheered on by the left-wing scum in academia only shows what a corrupt pit of poison academia has become.
There's one big difference between Antifa and the Nazis. At least the Nazi SA thugs didn't cover their faces with ski-masks. The vermin in Antifa don't have those kind of guts.
Anonymous,
DeleteI would go so far as to say MLM is worse than Nazis and Antifa according to your first paragraph, because they at least allow you to think freely privately. I do not believe that can exist in MLM as any dissenting opinion, whether it is public or private, is strictly brainwashed out of the downline member. It is an important part of the mind control to stop outside opinions from penetrating into their agenda.
I'm sorry to hear that antifa is supported by the left, especially after what happened at Evergreen. These people clearly have a dystopian point of view when it comes to these groups and probably think these groups won't do the same to them regardless of their ideologies or support for the terrorist group.
I don't really understand the masks. They don't do anything to support the "cause" or "point" they are trying to make. I'm even more confused as to why people support terrorism, especially when it is purposely dressing up and looking like terrorism. It is truly odd because you could have these people go and rob a white jeweler and claim it is for reparations or some other nonsense and white people will cheer for them. What is happening?!?!?!
Antifa types wear ski-masks because they know that many people today carry smart phones that have cameras in them. With a ski-mask on, you can beat up people and throw things at them without being photographed and then later arrested by the police. It's exactly why ghetto types wear hoodies when perpetrating street muggings.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous,
DeleteAnd yet they are celebrated by part of the US population because they are somehow loosely affiliated with the "Liberal" side due to their anti-Trump rhetoric. Unbelievable!
The entire premise of this article in comparing MLMs to Antifa is laughable. Antifa is a terrorist organization comprised of faceless cowards who incite violence to perpetuate their own agenda. Can’t remember the last time an MLM organization took to the streets rioting. There may be a few accounts of rogue MLMrs getting violent from dissenting points of view, although I have no idea as to the legitimacy of this claim, but it is a huge generalization to assume all MLMrs are violent. If this were a color issue, you would most definitely be a racist. I have several friends affiliated with MLMs, and none of them have been asked to cut ties with friends/family not interested in their business, quit their jobs, drop out of activities or any of the other ridiculous claims you made comparing MLMs to cults.
ReplyDeleteI respect your right to free speech, but don’t pass off what you are stating as fact. It is merely fantasy developed by a conspiracy theorist.
Anonymous said, "The entire premise of this article in comparing MLMs to Antifa is laughable."
DeleteAh, I can see this is going to be an open-minded comment.
"Antifa is a terrorist organization comprised of faceless cowards who incite violence to perpetuate their own agenda. Can’t remember the last time an MLM organization took to the streets rioting."
Not every criminal organization does damage the same way. One may use force while the other uses psychological coercion, but at the end of the day they both do damage. Sure, choosing "Antifa" is an intense example, but there is relevance to this article. They both try to stifle the opposition's opinions through a series of tactics. If you have ever had a debate with an MLMer, especially in front of other MLMers, then you will notice the same necessity to shut down the conversation rather than address the critical points. They may not wield physical weapons, but they wield thought weapons designed to deceive and dissociate themselves from the negative attention.
Anonymous said, "If this were a color issue, you would most definitely be a racist."
Huh? None of this statement makes sense or has anything to do with the topic.
Anonymous said, "I have several friends affiliated with MLMs, and none of them have been asked to cut ties with friends/family not interested in their business, quit their jobs, drop out of activities or any of the other ridiculous claims you made comparing MLMs to cults."
You can stop the charade. Nobody comes with this much vitriol unless they feel personally attacked. We all know you are a member of an MLM.
Just because a person is involved with MLM doesn't mean they will disappear from the world. However, there are plenty of stories in which this has happened, and MLMs have designed their programs to make sure people are as heavily involved as possible. They try to be your income source, your friends, and your family. That sounds pretty cult-like.
Anonymous said, "I respect your right to free speech, but don’t pass off what you are stating as fact. It is merely fantasy developed by a conspiracy theorist."
Translation: You can have the right to speak, just so long as it doesn't impact my MLM.
What a bunch of nonsense. This blog is clearly opinion based. There aren't any "conspiracy theories", and I am not a "conspiracy theorist". Your ad hominems are quite pathetic.
This is arguably the worst analogy I have ever seen. Antifa is a terrorist organization comprised of faceless, nameless cowards who incite violence to perpetuate their own agendas. I can’t remember the last time I saw a group of MLMrs take to the streets rioting, can you? Maybe there are a few rogue MLMrs who have been violent, although I can’t say this is even legit, but to generalize an entire industry is a huge leap. If this were a color issue, you would most definitely be a racist.
ReplyDeleteI have several friends affiliated with MLMs and they have not been forced or even asked to cut ties with friends or family outside the company, quit their jobs, stop activities or any of the other ridiculous “cult” claims you made.
I respect your right to free speech, but your theories are not fact, they are a work of fiction developed by a conspiracy theorist.
To Anonymous at 8:51 and 9:02 AM --
ReplyDeleteThe issue is not whether MLMs are "just as bad" as the Nazis or Antifa. The issue is attitude and methodology. Both MLMs and terrorist organizations share a compulsive need to control others, and to dictate norms of speech and behavior.
Sure, the MLMs haven't set up any GULAGs yet. But they are desperate to control the conversation about themselves and their schemes if the conversation doesn't align with MLM propaganda. And they certainly will try to shut down all conversation about the subject if they are losing the argument. It's only a short step from that to physical violence and coercion.
Anonymous --
DeleteI think the other Anonymous is struggling with recognizing their own MLM programming. This article was clearly referencing psychological tactics, not physical coercion, and yet this Anonymous failed to make that connection. That lack of reading comprehension suggests the other Anonymous didn't grasp the post, or was enraged because it stopped their recruit from joining their MLM.
I find it hard to believe that a person would make a post like that and not be directly affiliated with an MLM. I find it even harder to believe that a person would have several MLM friends and not be involved. This person is clearly acting out emotionally because my blog did its job.
The last part of his post actually confirms the accuracy of my post. He is giving me the right to speech as long as it doesn't have anything to do with his MLM. His pretend "respect" for my rights as he defames me shows he is a hypocrite and a liar.
Personal attacks are a clear defection tactic. Obviously I am dealing with an emotional rather than a rational thinker.
ReplyDeleteIt is clear that your bitterness over Amway has not allowed you to move forward. Take personal responsibility for your actions and the time wasted on attending Amway events. Had you done your research ahead of time, you may have not wasted one second on Amway.
People have free will, your terrorist analogy is terrible and not backed by anything other than your own limited experience. There is no data to support any of this other than one bitter experience.
Anonymous said, "Personal attacks are a clear defection tactic. Obviously I am dealing with an emotional rather than a rational thinker."
DeleteYou already wrote this on another post. I'm not sure why you are spamming this blog, but it didn't make you look good there and it doesn't make you look good here.
Saying, "Personal attacks are a clear defection tactic.", and the following that with, "Obviously I am dealing with an emotional rather than a rational thinker." is blatantly bad hypocrisy. How can you try and play the high ground and also attack me at the same time? Think about that one.
Anonymous said, "It is clear that your bitterness over Amway has not allowed you to move forward. "
I would argue my experience from Amway has allowed me to move forward in a positive way. I share valuable information that people regularly read and appreciate. It couldn't be a much better way to move forward.
Anonymous said, "Take personal responsibility for your actions and the time wasted on attending Amway events."
First of all, you aren't my keeper, therefore ordering me to do things is comical. Secondly, what would you deem to be a proper way to "take personal responsibility"? I feel that taking time out of my busy life to write this blog is more than enough "responsibility taken", but clearly you have a different expectation.
Anonymous said, "Had you done your research ahead of time, you may have not wasted one second on Amway."
That's something in which I agree. I wish I had done research before I went to do Amway.
Anonymous said, "People have free will, your terrorist analogy is terrible and not backed by anything other than your own limited experience. There is no data to support any of this other than one bitter experience."
These two points have nothing to do with each other.
Yes, people have free will, in my opinion. Some would argue otherwise, such as Sam Harris, but I disagree with him on this point.
No, my analogy isn't terrible, you just don't like it because I wrote it. There is plenty of data to support my claims, just ask anybody that has been harmed by MLM.
I would love to see a stat on people who have been harmed by an MLM. Maybe you and I have different definitions of the word “harmed”. I don’t think someone who tries a new venture, breaks even, isn’t successful is actually “harmed”. Not everybody will
Deletesucceed at everything they try in life.
It is unfortunate that people lose a lot of money or harm personal relationships. This is where personal responsibility comes in- it’s really easy to blame “the other guy” or in this case, an entire industry. People like that never get ahead in life, are always the victim, because it’s always someone else’s fault.
Anonymous said, "I would love to see a stat on people who have been harmed by an MLM."
DeleteHere is a statistic that shows how many people fail at MLM. https://www.thebalance.com/the-likelihood-of-mlm-success-1794500
You will see how many people have been harmed by losing money and time joining MLM frauds.
Anonymous said, "Maybe you and I have different definitions of the word “harmed”."
There can't be different definitions. It is either is harm or it isn't.
Anonymous said, "I don’t think someone who tries a new venture, breaks even, isn’t successful is actually “harmed”."
First of all, that was a weird example. Most people that join MLM do not break even, not even close. Second of all, just because they broke even doesn't mean they weren't harmed. That person could have lost friends and family in the process of fulfilling their "MLM career".
Again, anyone that pursues MLM (excluding the leaders), can fall into the category of "harmed". They are unknowing participants of a gigantic fraud.
Anonymous said, "Not everybody will
succeed at everything they try in life."
Completely irrelevant and a statement everyone can agree on. I have no idea why you wrote this.
Anonymous said, "It is unfortunate that people lose a lot of money or harm personal relationships."
Yes, it is.
Anonymous said, "This is where personal responsibility comes in- it’s really easy to blame “the other guy” or in this case, an entire industry."
No, it isn't. Most people don't blame MLMs, but rather blame themselves. That's the stupid MLM rhetoric, brainwashing, propaganda, you MLMers put into their heads. In fact, it is very rare for people to speak negatively about MLM. Most are too embarrassed, or just want to move forward with their lives.
Anonymous said, "People like that never get ahead in life, are always the victim, because it’s always someone else’s fault."
Not only is this not true, but this is the blatant brainwashing nonsense that makes former MLMers not speak about their terrible MLM experience. You are putting them in a position where they cannot hold the MLM responsible, no matter what the reason may be.
Oh, and look at how you are continuously blaming me and not taking personal responsibility for the failure to get your prospect to join. Come on mister MLMer, stop playing the victim card.
You can’t take responsibility for your own failure in an MLM, so you want to blame the industry. Taking personal accountability for your own actions is not MLM rhetoric. It’s how I live my life personally and in my professional career. I have worked in Corporate America my entire career, I take responsibility for my actions and decisions, even if they are wrong. Maybe, you can’t do that.
ReplyDeleteWhat have I blamed you for? How am I the victim? You have not impacted my life. I haven’t made any decisions because of you. You give yourself way too much credit. I just disagree with your scare tactics, using words like “terrorist” and “cult”
Since you can’t give me a stat on what % of ex MLMers have lost money, I would argue that my statement about breaking even is NOT weird. You can’t prove otherwise.
Anonymous said, "You can’t take responsibility for your own failure in an MLM, so you want to blame the industry."
DeleteI never joined an MLM, therefore I couldn't have failed.
Anonymous said, "Taking personal accountability for your own actions is not MLM rhetoric."
You are correct, but the context in which you are using that statement is MLM rhetoric. In the sentence directly before this one, you reference taking responsibility and failure in MLM. It is impressive, in a scary way, that you continue to be this oddly hypocritical.
Anonymous said, "It’s how I live my life personally and in my professional career."
I haven't seen you take responsibility for anything, and "professional career" is redundant.
Anonymous said, "I have worked in Corporate America my entire career, I take responsibility for my actions and decisions, even if they are wrong. Maybe, you can’t do that. "
Okay, repeating your statements doesn't make them more valid. I haven't seen you take any responsibility for your hypocritical attacks on me, and who uses the term "Corporate America" outside of MLM? I have yet to meet a non-MLMer refer to anything outside of MLM as "Corporate America". Oh, and MLMs are corporations, in America, which means they would fall into the "Corporate America" category.
Anonymous said, "What have I blamed you for? How am I the victim? You have not impacted my life."
Wow, that's some short term memory. You blamed me for spreading bad information, you blamed me for losing a potential downline, then you deleted the comment which is -- an interesting decision.
Again, you are acting as though you have done nothing wrong, hence you are acting as a victim. You claim I make personal attacks, you claim I made you lose a potential downline. These are claims of a victim.
I would say I have greatly impacted your life in the past 12 hours. Your non-stop comments confirm this to be fact.
Anonymous said, "I haven’t made any decisions because of you."
You are commenting on this blog because I made it. That sounds like a decision you made because of me.
Anonymous said, "You give yourself way too much credit."
You don't give me any credit.
Anonymous said, "I just disagree with your scare tactics, using words like “terrorist” and 'cult'"
My scare tactics? Ha. Taking my words out of context means nothing, and the real scare tactics come from MLMers like you. You MLMers and your rhetoric are constantly reinforcing fears of failure, fears of the unknown, fears of not accomplishing. MLMers, like you, are the true scare tacticians.
Anonymous said, "Since you can’t give me a stat on what % of ex MLMers have lost money"
I actually did give you multiple statistics listed at the link in the previous comment. The fact that you did not take the time to look is not surprising.
Anonymous said, "I would argue that my statement about breaking even is NOT weird."
Why? What statistic do you have to prove that breaking even in MLM is a regular occurrence? When did you actually support your arguments and statements with any evidence?
Anonymous said, "You can’t prove otherwise."
I already did. Quit your bloviating.
Dear Dr. Doe --
ReplyDeleteThis "Anonymous" at 2:20 and 11:25 is obviously involved in some MLM, probably Amway and one of its subsystems. The rhetoric he uses is the clue: they are direct quotes from the Amway propaganda book. Phrases like "move forward" and "take personal responsibility" are dead giveaways. They are right out of some Amway training CD. I'm surprised he didn't start talking about "prosuming" and "residual income."
What's curious is his refusal to admit involvement in the Amway scheme. How can he have "several friends affiliated with MLMs" and not be subject to their pushy recruitment efforts? Why would he be coming to visit this small-niche website blog if he had no particular prejudice or animus concerning the subject of MLMs?
The man is trying to posture as a disinterested and open-minded commentator, when it is plain that he is an emotionally committed defender of Amway. That is his major hypocrisy. And he is either blind or a bald-faced liar when he says that everything here is just "opinion" and "theory." Where has he been for the last twenty years? The mountain of factual evidence and anecdotes about Amway's utterly destructive nature is bigger than Mt. McKinley.
Anonymous --
DeleteThere were a flurry of comments from this character today. I'm not sure which MLM he is a part of, but Amway is probably a great guess.
The line about friends and MLMs struck me as well. Nobody cares this much about their friend's activities. I believe this Anonymous admitted they actually lost a prospect to this blog in a different comment. It was probably some accidental honesty.
He had many hypocritical moments, and an odd amount of repetition. He kept saying I was attacking him as a deflection technique, then in the next sentence he would call me emotional and bitter. It was extremely odd, and I can see someone accidentally being hypocritical when they are in a heated argument, but typing it out like verbal vomit shows how volatile and angry he is.
I will concede that I have to put this into the opinion category, but I definitely try to support my opinions and color commentary with research and facts. This is the reason I gave such leniency to that comment.
The 2 of you have a hard on for Amway and can’t get past it.
ReplyDeletePhrases like “personal responsibility” and “move forward” are rhetoric used in Corp America. Maybe you don’t have a job? Maybe you are always blaming someone else?
I don’t know anyone affiliated with Amway, but apparently you refuse to acknowlege that not all companies are “pushy” or “cult-like” you use claims from Amway, that may be valid, and assume every other MLM operates that way. The structure may be the same, but the tenets are not. One of the core philosophies of MLM is to expand your network beyond your organization. When I hear Amway stories about choosing between the company and family, I honestly can’t comprehend that, and if someone has to think about that choice, then they are an idiot, plain and simple.
I came upon this website by accident and I like to hear other points of view. That doesn’t mean I have to agree. You on the other hand would appear to prefer something more inbred, with cookie cutter povs.
Anonymous said, "The 2 of you have a hard on for Amway and can’t get past it."
DeleteRemember that part about personal attacks?
Anonymous said, "Phrases like “personal responsibility” and “move forward” are rhetoric used in Corp America."
You are part of an MLM. You are using this rhetoric as a way to deflect responsibility from the MLM to everyone else. This has nothing to do with "Corp America", which is also a category in which MLM belongs, this has to do with you attacking me.
Anonymous said, "Maybe you don’t have a job? Maybe you are always blaming someone else?"
Maybe you have an issue with my blog because it stopped your recruit from being swindled by you and your MLM?
Anonymous said, "I don’t know anyone affiliated with Amway, but apparently you refuse to acknowlege that not all companies are “pushy” or “cult-like” you use claims from Amway, that may be valid, and assume every other MLM operates that way."
MLMs generally follow the Amway playbook. It is something you are currently doing. You seem to never actually define which MLM is different, or even which MLM you participate in, yet you have no problem defending all of them vaguely. I have asked numerous times to name one MLM that is different, you can't.
Anonymous said, "The structure may be the same, but the tenets are not."
Prove it.
Anonymous said, "One of the core philosophies of MLM is to expand your network beyond your organization."
You mean spread it like a virus because the focus is on recruitment instead of selling goods or services.
Anonymous said, "When I hear Amway stories about choosing between the company and family, I honestly can’t comprehend that, and if someone has to think about that choice, then they are an idiot, plain and simple."
People have to make difficult decisions all the time. People elect to go to war, even though it takes them away from family and can possibly kill them, would you label them as "an idiot, plain and simple."? People have to work on oil rigs for a month at a time away from family, would you label them as "an idiot, plain and simple?"
Consider yourself fortunate you don't have to make those types of decisions.
Anonymous said, "I came upon this website by accident and I like to hear other points of view."
That's a gas. You came here because you lost a recruit and got angry. Then you decided to spew your vitriol on multiple posts all day. The last thing you like to do is "hear other points of view".
Anonymous said, "That doesn’t mean I have to agree."
Nobody said you did.
Anonymous said, "You on the other hand would appear to prefer something more inbred, with cookie cutter povs."
I'll give that insult a "C" for creativity and an "F" for delivery.
You give yourself way too much credit!!! You and your 5 followers aren’t even a blip on my radar.
ReplyDeleteYour comment says otherwise.
DeleteDear Dr. Doe --
ReplyDeleteWell, it looks like we really got under this guy's skin. He's enraged that his ass has been kicked in this exchange.
But it's like you have said before: MLM defenders are prone to use logical fallacies (argumentum ad populum, ad hominem, and others) as their method of debate. When their fallacies are blown out of the water, they get pissed off.
I doubt that this guy will be back. He'll just go to lick his wounds with his "friends affiliated with MLMs."
Anonymous --
DeleteThank you. The exchange will hopefully prove to be fruitful for future viewers, especially when it comes to responding to illogical nonsense. I'm actually impressed that MLMer stuck around as long as they did.
That MLMer was a particularly nasty one. He loved using ad hominems.
In one of his earlier comments, he had a moment of accidental honesty and said that he lost a prospect because of this blog. He tried to delete it, but I have it quoted in my response. These MLMers are cowards, and they will try anything possible to win, even on a little blog like this.
I would also be surprised if this MLMer comes back, but if he does, his comments will always be approved.
Kicked in the ass? What are you, “the bully on the playground”? No need to answer, it was a rhetorical question.
DeleteAs for your comments about this mysterious Amway playbook and phrases like “ personal responsibility” and “ move forward”, I just have to laugh. These ideas were a part of my life before I even knew about MLMs. What you can’t seem to grasp is that people have a life outside of MLM. Are you actually saying there is something wrong with taking personal responsibility for your actions and choices? Are you actually saying that Amway made up these phrases and ideas? You give Amway too much credit.
My comment regarding choosing Amway before family was specific to Amway and MLM. Talking about people who have to go to war or people who work on oil rigs is completely irrelevant. Don’t make it a out something it’s not, and don’t presume that I am fortunate enough not to have made difficult decisions in my life. But here’s the thing, I own those decisions, sounds like you don’t own yours.
Ahh, my mysterious friends are just as mysterious as yours. You mentioned somewhere that I seem “overly concerned” with their actions. Maybe you don’t have any friends.
Corporate America only used by MLMers? I got a huge kick out of this one. You clearly don’t know enough people. I have no idea if MLMers use this term or not, You seem to think everything starts and ends with being attached or affiliated with an MLM it doesn’t.
As far as my moment of “accidental honesty”- Prove it!
If your sole means of income is this “niche” blog- Good Luck “Dr”
Anonymous said, "My comment regarding choosing Amway before family was specific to Amway and MLM."
DeleteWhether you were specifically referencing Amway or not, my response was to highlight the flaw in your comprehension. People have to make difficult decisions when it comes to work and family. Sometimes they have to choose work first.
Anonymous said, "Talking about people who have to go to war or people who work on oil rigs is completely irrelevant."
Wrong, it was completely relevant, because you couldn't understand how people choose business over family. Those were two excellent references to how people choose a job for a duration of time and leave their families.
Again, even if you believe Amway is a waste of time, which it is, it isn't hard to believe people will make the sacrifice to pursue Amway if they have noble intentions of helping their family. You can read the story of Eric Scheibeler, "Merchants of Deception", and see someone that was truly passionate about Amway and his family.
Anonymous said, "... and don’t presume that I am fortunate enough not to have made difficult decisions in my life."
I'm sure you have made difficult decisions in your life, but considering you couldn't "comprehend" the sacrifice of choosing a business over family, it is safe to assume you have never been in that position.
Anonymous said, "But here’s the thing, I own those decisions, sounds like you don’t own yours."
This is quite the inane ad hominem. I have no idea what decisions you are talking about, and this has nothing to do with anything.
Anonymous said, "Ahh, my mysterious friends are just as mysterious as yours. You mentioned somewhere that I seem “overly concerned” with their actions. Maybe you don’t have any friends."
Remember this part, "Personal attacks are a clear defection tactic."? You wrote it three different times.
Nobody, in the history of ever, goes this far out of their way to defend their friend's "business". This is clearly personal, and you have already made the mistake of admitting that this blog made you lose a recruit.
Anonymous said, "Corporate America only used by MLMers?"
Yes. MLMers regularly refer to anything that isn't MLM as "Corporate America". This is also something you have done many times. It is MLM propaganda to make people believe anything that isn't MLM is evil.
Anonymous said, "You clearly don’t know enough people."
Sigh. More useless ad hominems.
Anonymous said, "I have no idea if MLMers use this term or not"
Wow, that's some serious cognitive dissonance!
Anonymous said, "You seem to think everything starts and ends with being attached or affiliated with an MLM it doesn’t."
Well, considering that is the topic of this blog, it's going to be the central part of this discussion.
Anonymous said, "As far as my moment of “accidental honesty”- Prove it!"
Here you go! "If someone wants to read your blog, see it as truth and not join my team, that is their choice, because we all have Free Will."
That's twice you have asked me to prove something, and I have done it, maybe you can actually follow up on some of my questions?
Anonymous said, "If your sole means of income is this “niche” blog- Good Luck 'Dr'"
I don't earn any money from this. It is a Mitzvah I provide to those that seek it.
Holy Smoke, Dr. Doe -- the guy has come back for more punishment! Maybe he's a masochist.
ReplyDeleteOK, Anonymous at 10:48 AM -- here goes.
Your mantra about "taking personal responsibility" is nothing but a New-Age cliche, used by scam artists to escape blame for cheating people. If I am cheated in a business deal by dishonest persons, do I have to "take responsibility" for it? No -- I call my lawyer and the police and have the criminals arrested and charged. If a woman chooses to take a walk through the park, and she is raped, does she have to "take responsibility" for what happened? No -- she goes to court and testifies against her rapist. You don't seem to understand that there are genuine victims in the world who. through no fault of their own, are harmed by others. And this is CERTAINLY the case with Amway or any of your other beloved MLMs. The purpose of this website and many others is to save those people from harm by presenting them the truth about Amway and other MLMs. And truth is that these MLMs are ripoffs run by sleazy, greedy creeps.
Do you think the person cheated in a dishonest business deal should "move forward"? Do you think the raped woman should "move forward"? Your attitude is contemptible and base. The phony phrases "take responsibility" and "move forward" are pure jargon, typical of shallow idiots who get fired up at Amway functions. Your pet phrase "move forward" is just a cheap metaphor for "Forget about it, pal." That's what you'd like the victims of MLMs to do -- just "forget about it."
And please don't give us more bullshit about how you aren't involved in an MLM. You know very well (as we all do) that you are pissed off because a prospect you were recruiting changed his mind because of this blog. You tried to delete your post mentioning it, but we saw it. How pathetic it is for you to pose as a disinterested observer, when in fact you're up to your neck in some sort of MLM racket.
Neither I nor Dr. Doe receive any income from this blog. But the fact that you mentioned the subject only proves you are the typical money-conscious philistine who worships MLMs. You're obsessed with "income."
If that's not enough ass-kicking for you, come back again and I'll provide more.
Anonymous --
DeleteI'm surprised this fellow came back as well. I think you are right, he is a masochist.
It was interesting you brought up the rape example. I thought about doing that too, but was afraid it would derail the conversation since this person loves to take things out of context. I believe he tried to label me a racist at one point. This person has taken some of his talking points from the "left".
I also agree with your translation for "move forward". That is his best way of -- wait for it -- "not taking personal responsibility". The last thing he wants people to do is confront him after they lose their money.
These MLMers are notorious for shifting the blame to the victims, and their ability to use cliche phrases incorrectly is an incredibly powerful psychological technique. I had previously referenced a training manual for "Trump University", and how it taught the sales representatives to say "congratulations" in place of "thank you". The people that would buy the educations would actually be thanking the sales representative for purchasing the education because instinctively we are taught to say "thank you" when we are congratulated. I believe this "Anonymous" is using the same tactic.
Keep up the great work with these responses. They are fun to read!