Today's blog post is about a particularly degenerate being named Tyson Zahner. He has been around for a few years on YouTube, and has recently resurfaced again. I have written previously about "Financial Gurus" such as, Robert Kiyosaki, Tai Lopez, any of the house flipping people, and many more, and unfortunately there are plenty of these "Gurus" in the MLM industry as well. I had previously encountered Tyson last year, and had a discussion with him about Amway which degenerated into a battle between an unstoppable force and an immovable object. Tyson ran out of programmed rebuttals and performed a disappearing act, similar to any other MLM apologist.
I have learned that as long as there is an industry where money can be made (whether legitimate or not), then there will be "Experts" to help out because they have hearts of gold and want nothing but success for everyone, or so they claim. These "Experts" very conveniently leave out their financial incentive to be "Teachers". The thing I find most fascinating about these so-called "Experts" or "Financial Gurus" is their lack of accreditation. None of these people have an actual degree, certificate, or any other verification that proves their information is authentic, legitimate, or at least peer-reviewed. There is no governing board that has strict qualifications for becoming an expert in their field of business, and there is no system in place to check their claims. They can espouse whatever they want about finance and business without any actual benchmark or standard.
Tyson Zahner is a particularly potent example of an MLM "Guru", and he utilizes hallmark strategies to deceive people into giving him their hard earned money. Here are some of his strategies:
1.Tyson has lots of YouTube videos! Tyson has been at this for years, and he has actually started paying money to have his videos come up as advertisements. These videos span from promoting his "Teachings" to click-bait inspired titles suggesting he is going to give a hard hitting analysis of an MLM (such as Amway). The end result is always the same, he wants you to watch more of his videos, sign up for his programs, classes, or MLM, and give him your hard earned money. He is running the same illegal tools racket as MLMs, such as Amway, and he has no ability to prove that his content is useful or legal.
2. Tyson uses a lot of edification. He loves to show off his face, and since he is a photography studio owner, he takes a lot of pictures making himself look prominent. He uses the same style of photography as celebrities, and he has also begun dressing in suits, because his old hillbilly look with the frayed hat probably isn't getting a desirable effect. He also uses the new webinar program, a modern website, and many other edifying images (such as a fancy signature similar to a corporation, a picture of him on stage at a conference). The only way he can make money is by proving he is a legitimate and authentic resource for information. The more he can edify himself, the more likely he can get into other people's wallets.
3. Tyson loves talking about his rags to riches story. A typical trademark of every leader in MLM is a soppy story about their struggle and how they came to find this "business" along with a "multiple six figure income monthly". He is attempting to appear more humanly, yet he is still some random person on a computer screen trying to extract your money. He has never provided income disclosure evidence to support his claims, and he has never shown any documentation to show his wealth was generated from anything other than recruiting rubes and taking photographs in his studio.
Tyson is nearly completely automated. At this point, since I investigated a couple of these things recently, Tyson has spent many hours utilizing technology to put his message out there and to schedule people into his webinars without having to personally come into contact with the "Prospects". He has a ton of automated e-mails that will spam you to death once you sign up, and if it weren't for the fact that he had previously responded to my YouTube comments a year ago, he would be as much a real person as Pinocchio (probably should have the same nose too). Tyson, much like "Team Phoenix", has diligently created an internet personality, and you may never know who the real person is.
Tyson is an expert replicator and chameleon. He has been at this for a few years now, and none of his content, from my observations, has been unique. He has even tried to coin a seldom used phrase, "Attraction Marketing", in recent months because "Network Marketing" has become as ugly a term as "Pyramid Scheme". This is the main reason for the post, because the man is a con-artist AND he is evolving. Most of these people disappear or give up after a decently short period of time, but Tyson refuses to give up and he continues to try and enhance his deceptive strategies. He, much like MLMs, is striving to use new techniques of deception and to stay ahead of the curve before more information gets out there.
I'll leave you with the disclaimer he puts at the bottom of his page, "* Results will vary based on personal capabilities, experience, knowledge, level of desire, work ethic, time invested and an infinite number of variables beyond our knowledge or control. There are no guarantees concerning the level of success you may achieve."
Source: https://successwithtyson.com/about-us/
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mQze9yPG1E
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaLwqX2-9W0&t=191s
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeGfd9o4VSo&t=12s
I have learned that as long as there is an industry where money can be made (whether legitimate or not), then there will be "Experts" to help out because they have hearts of gold and want nothing but success for everyone, or so they claim. These "Experts" very conveniently leave out their financial incentive to be "Teachers". The thing I find most fascinating about these so-called "Experts" or "Financial Gurus" is their lack of accreditation. None of these people have an actual degree, certificate, or any other verification that proves their information is authentic, legitimate, or at least peer-reviewed. There is no governing board that has strict qualifications for becoming an expert in their field of business, and there is no system in place to check their claims. They can espouse whatever they want about finance and business without any actual benchmark or standard.
Tyson Zahner is a particularly potent example of an MLM "Guru", and he utilizes hallmark strategies to deceive people into giving him their hard earned money. Here are some of his strategies:
1.Tyson has lots of YouTube videos! Tyson has been at this for years, and he has actually started paying money to have his videos come up as advertisements. These videos span from promoting his "Teachings" to click-bait inspired titles suggesting he is going to give a hard hitting analysis of an MLM (such as Amway). The end result is always the same, he wants you to watch more of his videos, sign up for his programs, classes, or MLM, and give him your hard earned money. He is running the same illegal tools racket as MLMs, such as Amway, and he has no ability to prove that his content is useful or legal.
2. Tyson uses a lot of edification. He loves to show off his face, and since he is a photography studio owner, he takes a lot of pictures making himself look prominent. He uses the same style of photography as celebrities, and he has also begun dressing in suits, because his old hillbilly look with the frayed hat probably isn't getting a desirable effect. He also uses the new webinar program, a modern website, and many other edifying images (such as a fancy signature similar to a corporation, a picture of him on stage at a conference). The only way he can make money is by proving he is a legitimate and authentic resource for information. The more he can edify himself, the more likely he can get into other people's wallets.
3. Tyson loves talking about his rags to riches story. A typical trademark of every leader in MLM is a soppy story about their struggle and how they came to find this "business" along with a "multiple six figure income monthly". He is attempting to appear more humanly, yet he is still some random person on a computer screen trying to extract your money. He has never provided income disclosure evidence to support his claims, and he has never shown any documentation to show his wealth was generated from anything other than recruiting rubes and taking photographs in his studio.
Tyson is nearly completely automated. At this point, since I investigated a couple of these things recently, Tyson has spent many hours utilizing technology to put his message out there and to schedule people into his webinars without having to personally come into contact with the "Prospects". He has a ton of automated e-mails that will spam you to death once you sign up, and if it weren't for the fact that he had previously responded to my YouTube comments a year ago, he would be as much a real person as Pinocchio (probably should have the same nose too). Tyson, much like "Team Phoenix", has diligently created an internet personality, and you may never know who the real person is.
Tyson is an expert replicator and chameleon. He has been at this for a few years now, and none of his content, from my observations, has been unique. He has even tried to coin a seldom used phrase, "Attraction Marketing", in recent months because "Network Marketing" has become as ugly a term as "Pyramid Scheme". This is the main reason for the post, because the man is a con-artist AND he is evolving. Most of these people disappear or give up after a decently short period of time, but Tyson refuses to give up and he continues to try and enhance his deceptive strategies. He, much like MLMs, is striving to use new techniques of deception and to stay ahead of the curve before more information gets out there.
I'll leave you with the disclaimer he puts at the bottom of his page, "* Results will vary based on personal capabilities, experience, knowledge, level of desire, work ethic, time invested and an infinite number of variables beyond our knowledge or control. There are no guarantees concerning the level of success you may achieve."
Source: https://successwithtyson.com/about-us/
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mQze9yPG1E
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IaLwqX2-9W0&t=191s
Source: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeGfd9o4VSo&t=12s
Well, at least he actually puts the disclaimer at the bottom of the page. Give him credit for that much honesty. Most MLM racketeers do nothing but orate on how rich you are bound to be if you follow their advice.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous --
DeleteDoes it really make it better if he thinks putting that stupid disclaimer at the bottom will help him with the law? We both know he isn't putting that up there because he wants people to make an informed decision after pitching his "Teaching System". Tyson is a true asshole and if he really "sponsored" 1,000 people last year, then he is doing some real damage to a lot of people.
No guys. Those are fake disclaimers. You have to think about it.... Results will vary based on work ethic, level of desire, etc.!!! They are telling you that if you don't think this is right for you, then you must not have a good work ethic. Fake disclaimers
DeleteAll You ASSHOLES ARE JUST JEALOUS because he has more money then you and he doesn't have to work for anyone like you dickheads do LMAO. Good luck paying taxes & Interest to the government. Oh, almost forgot, GO FUCK YOUR MOTHER!!!!
DeleteAnonymous --
DeleteYou seem troubled. You have left many profane comments. Perhaps you should take a step back and calm down.
I'm not defending the guy. He's an MLM creep like all the rest. But by putting that disclaimer down he protects himself not just from the law but from the wrath of idiots who sign up with him. The old principle of "caveat emptor" kicks in.
ReplyDeleteTyson may be an asshole, but so are the people whom he sponsors.
I agree that he is probably deceiving many other thieves, but I'm sure he is also deceiving many innocent dupes that have no experience with this "field".
DeleteAt the end of the day you are absolutely correct about "caveat emptor", but there should definitely be repercussions for the seller as well. If the seller is allowed to continue flogging BS remedies for people's money problems without concern for consequences, then there won't be a major change where it is needed. Relying on the conman's moral compass is about as reliable as a GPS at the bottom of the Grand Canyon.
SUCK DICK!!!
DeleteJust got Scammed out of $97 by Tyson. Bought his "Inner Circle" membership thinking the content would be a guide book for creating my YouTube and Facebook content. Instead it was minutes of Tyson talking about himself, Totally useless. I asked for a refund of my $97 AND REUSED. TYSON IS CHARLATAN.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous,
DeleteI'm sorry that you were scammed by Tyson, but luckily you were able to see through his BS before losing more money. Tyson has been around for many years, and many clothing sizes, and has been perfecting his technique. He has basically become a mimic of Tai Lopez and Eric Worre, and tried to get a piece of the "Prosperity Messiah" market.
As you said, "Tyson is a charlatan", and he is just as useless as the rest of the people sent down from the heavens to teach the poor common folk how to become rich.
I am so glad I found this. I have not spent no oney but he was almost convincing on the part of how to create video content. Can you give somr names of legit teachers online? Thanks
DeleteHi Jamie,
DeleteI'm not the right person to recommend teachers, especially since I don't know what type of business you are trying to start or how you want to make money. My best recommendation is to ignore the "Gurus" that talk about having your best interest at heart, and mention they are making millions or are worth millions. These people are scammers, and it becomes blatantly clear, as Mark Cuban loosely stated, "If someone has a great deal, the last thing they will do is share it with you." Simply put, if these people make it sound extremely easy to make a lot of money, especially quickly, then they would be doing it themselves.
YOU MISERABLE COCK SUCKERS GO FUCK YOUR MOTHER!!!!
DeleteStop with the bad language...people are just having a discussion.
DeleteLegit Question: Has anyone here actually taken any of Tysons Marketing Courses? He seems to have a very good system because he had me watching his webinar and almost buying the course. So in conclusion, I would like to know the technique of his marketing and im sure if i put in the time and effort, it could help me to sell my products/services? Honest and kind opinions please...
I don't know anything about MLM and would never actually bother signing up for a pipe dream like that (I ran across this website when I searched for "tyson zahner reviews). I recently left my job to start doing IT consulting on my own and saw one of Tyson's youtube ads.
ReplyDeleteI liked what he said enough to sign up for his free "3 simple steps" webinar and I was very impressed. Like a lot of good advice a lot of it seems obvious in hindsight but obvious or not, I wasn't doing any of it before. No idea about the paid stuff.
He talks about "leading with value" and I for one have found value in what he has given away for free. Maybe the paid stuff is not as useful but even though I'm not in any kind of MLM scheme I learned enough that I don't need anything paid. Though I did take a couple of screenshots so I could refer to them later.
Mdudu,
DeleteThank you for your honest review of Tyson! I appreciate you coming by and leaving this comment. I'm also glad to hear that you aren't involved in MLM and are starting your own business. That is truly commendable.
Here is my problem with Tyson. He is only giving "advice" for free as a way to lure people into his seminars, and to get people to join his MLMs. He isn't formally trained in anything he speaks about, and everything he says, as you put it, "seems obvious". That is because he is repackaging generic, mind-numbing, rhetoric that was taught to him, and he is better than average because he has a decent camera presence (which he has worked on for years).
If you get value from his free stuff, and you stay away from seminars and MLMs, then I suppose that is okay, but you would be an outlier. I can't say for certain, but I would guess there are very few people that watch Tyson the same way you do.
I can tell you, without seeing any of his "paid stuff", that there is no value. He can't have anything to offer because his sources all come from criminal enterprises. It is like learning how to be successful in business from a mobster. Sure, they may make money, but do you think you can do what they do, and do you think they care if you fail? Also, if you do make money the way they do, can you deal with the fact that you are doing something illegal and hurting a lot of people?
My best advice, especially since you seem to be relatively new to business, is to ask local business owners the basics to running a business. They are going to be your best resource because they are in your same market place, they have experience, and they are probably legal. Don't go to some random online person that you have never met for advice on your future, especially when they are caught up in criminal organizations.
LOL YOU GUYS ARE SOOOOOO FUCKING DUMB giving such stupid advices, you obviously never had a business of your own that does't require you to be there 24/7. Ant you never will because you're DUMB!!! EAT A DICK!
DeleteAnonymous --
DeleteThank you for valuable comment. You have given the community a lot to think about.
Tyson is a lying shitbag who will hack shit to make money. He lies about his income and posted fake tax returns to justify his false statement of being a six figure earner.
ReplyDeleteFUCK YOUR MOTHER!!!
DeleteAnonymous --
DeleteWhy are you so angry? Did you lose a a potential "customer"?
Hey John Doe ... Tyson Zahner here again. What happened? I posted a comment nearly a week ago and it's still it not up.
ReplyDeleteWhy are you filtering it?
If you're all about helping people make an informed decision why not let them see both sides of the story?
If you're argument is so ironclad, it should stand up to a rebuttal, should it not?
TZ said, "Hey John Doe ... Tyson Zahner here again. What happened? I posted a comment nearly a week ago and it's still it not up."
DeleteInteresting. I never received an original comment from you. Would you care to resubmit it? I believe your comments will be valuable.
TZ said, "Why are you filtering it?"
I'm not "filtering" comments, never have, never will. Perhaps something erred on your end, because I don't believe anyone has ever had an issue with "filtering".
TZ said, "If you're all about helping people make an informed decision why not let them see both sides of the story?"
I'm not sure why you are being so repetitive. Consider me honored by the fact that you would care enough to take the time and defend yourself on this blog.
On a side note. This profile appears suspicious. I have had conversations with Tyson in the past and he has never had this amount of anonymity. No profile picture, no information about himself or his business, and only two profile views (likely by me), suggests something fishy.
John - I have regularly had 'MLM' racketeers trying to peddle their familiar, 'rags- to-riches-by-following-a-step-by-step (pay-through-the-nose)-plan,' fairy stories on my Blog, but (along with my associates) we have always warned such kitsch cultic crooks of the following:
DeletePlease be aware this is not a morally-relativist forum and, therefore, unsubstantiated 'MLM' bullshit will not be allowed to be dumped here without detailed qualification or heavy irony.
David --
DeleteYour rules are great! He should be made aware that his presence on this forum is of his own discretion and can be subject to any conditions I choose to make. Granted I am fair and balanced author and would choose to give people as many liberties as possible, but attempting to make me look fraudulent by suggesting I "filter" comments and or content will not be tolerated. Any attacks on my credibility instead of the credibility of the blog should be required to have "detailed qualification", or will be regarded as comic relief.
John - When you know how 'MLM' cultic rackets function, Tyson Zahner is revealed as both funny and sinister, but above all, almost-entirely predictable in his tedious act.
DeleteMr. Zahner is merely another otherwise-mediocre (and unoriginal) little charlatan who has been steadfastly pretending to have access to a secret knowledge which has enabled him to transform from an ordinary poor human into a fabulously wealthy superhuman, and that he is prepared to share this secret knowledge with anyone (for a price).
The USA seems to produce a never-ending supply of Tyson Zahners, but history proves that, at times of mass-alienation (following: wars, natural disasters, economic crises, etc.), all-manner of ludicrous crooks peddling all-manner of ludicrous salvation find it much easier to become widely-accepted as authentic Messiahs.
David --
DeleteThe "never-ending supply of Tyson Zahners" does seem to be increasing, at least from the advertisements that I have seen, and the industry doesn't seem to have a limit on demand for these people. I really hope there isn't a spike in Zahner's with the impending economic collapse, even though I'm sure they will get a huge boost in vulnerable victims entering the market place.
I would be interested to see if there is a correlation between more Zahner's popping up as the American middle-class continues to get wiped out. I just saw a graph today that showed, over 50% of U.S. taxes are paid by the top 10%, and over 80% of taxes are paid by the top 20% of income earners, which would suggest the remaining 80% are prime targets for the Zahner's of the U.S. These people feel hopeless and have no way of creating enough money to sustain a lifestyle as portrayed by the "American Dream", and the Zahner's of the world claim it is somehow obtainable through their "secret knowledge". It is a frustrating situation, but it needs a lot of American Government assistance to address the issues they are perpetuating through massive taxation, out of control debt creation, and a lack of jobs for uneducated.
So now I have just gone to send Tyson a message on messenger as that was one of the ways we were communicating and now I am not allowed to send him a message. All I am asking for is my money back why now has all communication stopped???
DeleteUnknown --
DeleteTyson doesn't handle conflict well. Even if you came to him with a cool head, he would probably block you because he is a charlatan and a thief. I highly suggest you try to do a charge back with your credit card, assuming that is how you paid. If you used PayPal with a bank transfer, then you may be able to reach out to your bank and let them know this is a fraudulent transaction.
John Doe ... Tyson Zahner here again
ReplyDelete(as a side note ... yes, this is real Tyson Zahner even if my "Blogger profile doesn't have my picture or any other information about me. If that seems "fishy" to you, then so-be-it. The reason I don't have a fleshed out profile on blogspot.com is that I don't use this platform ... never have ... I own my own domain with my own website on my own server. But if you're that skeptical to think that someone else actually took the time to pretend they were me and write up a lengthy rebuttal to your article in my defense, then I'll take it as a compliment that you think I'm that important that some 3rd party would come to bat for me)
Anyway, I'll re-submit my original comment again since you allegedly didn't get it the first time when I submitted it back on Sept. 28 (it'll come in a separate post immediately following this one)
But first, I am curious ... what first hand experience do you have with my products or coaching programs that gives you the authority to speak about me and my motives?
Have you ever purchased one of my products and gone through the training?
Have you ever been a part of one of my coaching programs?
Or are you just another person looking in from the outside forming a blanket opinion based on what you "think" you know about me?
It seems that your position is simply that anyone who believes Network Marketing to be a viable business model is a scammer and a schemer? (that is what this entire blog is all about, right? .... isn't this site all about finding people who have any connection whatsoever to the MLM or Network Marketing world and yelling "SCAM" from the rooftops.
If you'd looked any further than one YouTube channel I own that speaks to Network Marketers, then you would know that I help all business owners and entrepreneurs. I own two brick and mortar businesses (a photography studio and a shaved ice business). Everything I teach to network marketers and affiliate marketers are the same strategies that I've used in my photography and shaved ice businesses as well (are those scammy businesses, in your opinion too?)
Yes, I have many network marketers as students. But I also have accountants and real estate agents and authors and information product creators and brick and mortar business owners, and others who've purchased my coaching and training products and achieved amazing results with them.
So is it your opinion that any individual like myself - one who's acquired years of business experience and developed lots of knowledge and skills in the areas of business and marketing success - that I should not be compensated for my time, knowledge, skills and abilities?
Is it your opinion that anyone who proposes he/she can help another person succeed in business and making more money is just a scammer?
(FYI - My original comment will follow immediately after I post this one)
TZ --
DeleteTZ said, "But first, I am curious ... what first hand experience do you have with my products or coaching programs that gives you the authority to speak about me and my motives?"
First of all, the fallacy that I have to experience something in order to give an informed opinion does not apply to every situation. You "gurus" are all alike in your "teachings", and you all have the same agenda. If you have seen one, you have seen them all.
Second of all, here is an example of why your opinion about needing to experience your courses is incorrect: I have never driven my car into a wall, but I can say, with utmost certainty, it isn't a good idea to try it.
The idea that everyone must first experience your courses, or else their opinion is somehow null and void, is a commonly used trick by "gurus" such as yourself. This line of logic has never worked in this setting.
TZ said, "It seems that your position is simply that anyone who believes Network Marketing to be a viable business model is a scammer and a schemer? (that is what this entire blog is all about, right? .... isn't this site all about finding people who have any connection whatsoever to the MLM or Network Marketing world and yelling "SCAM" from the rooftops."
First of all, it isn't "Network Marketing", "Relational Marketing", "Attraction Marketing", or whatever other ridiculous term you use to describe MLM. This amateur parlor trick of changing the name to make the turd stink less will not work in this setting.
Second of all, that isn't what this blog is about. There are plenty of blogs already doing that, and if you had actually taken the time to read any of my blog, then you would know this. In fact, right under the title of the blog, you can read a nice short sentence that describes the blog's purpose.
Tyson said, "If you'd looked any further than one YouTube channel I own that speaks to Network Marketers, then you would know that I help all business owners and entrepreneurs. I own two brick and mortar businesses (a photography studio and a shaved ice business)."
Is this your excuse for legitimacy? Are you trying to suggest that your relationship to MLM is somehow less detrimental to your credibility because you try to help with other professional fields? Is this like a mobster saying, "I'm legitimate because I operate a coin laundry as well as rob and kill". Come on TZ, think some of what you are saying through before you spew out your drivel.
TZ said "Everything I teach to network marketers and affiliate marketers are the same strategies that I've used in my photography and shaved ice businesses as well (are those scammy businesses, in your opinion too?)"
Oh good, your potentially credible businesses are run with the same nonsensical knowledge as your "MLM Guru" teachings. The fact that you use non-MLM businesses as a front to help you generate credibility for your "MLM teachings" makes you particularly dangerous. This is exactly the same as how the mob used their businesses to try and prove legitimacy. This is probably something you should not repeat.
TZ said, "Yes, I have many network marketers as students. But I also have accountants and real estate agents and authors and information product creators and brick and mortar business owners, and others who've purchased my coaching and training products and achieved amazing results with them."
DeleteI believe this is against the FTC's rules for endorsements. Not only can you not prove that your "training" or "teaching" has any quantifiable effect, but you literally put a disclaimer saying you take no responsibility for the consequences of these "teachings". I'm fairly certain, as the owner of your "company", you are not allowed to say things like this.
https://www.ftc.gov/tips-advice/business-center/guidance/ftcs-endorsement-guides-what-people-are-asking#affiliateornetwork
TZ said, "So is it your opinion that any individual like myself - one who's acquired years of business experience and developed lots of knowledge and skills in the areas of business and marketing success - that I should not be compensated for my time, knowledge, skills and abilities?"
Yes, especially since the market you are targeting is not legal.
DeleteTZ said, "Is it your opinion that anyone who proposes he/she can help another person succeed in business and making more money is just a scammer?"
Yes and no. I would first like to point out how you have morphed from a "Network Marketing" "teacher" to a person that "helps another person succeed in business and making more money". That's an interesting transition.
I believe there are people that help others "succeed in business and making money", they are called teachers, and they have formal educations and certificates to prove competency. I do believe there are also informal teachers out there, particularly in trade-work (such as tailors, farmers, mechanics etc.), that mentor people to learn a particular skill or trade.
I do not believe that you fall in either of these categories, and I do not believe you have some overarching general knowledge that pertains to every field that falls under the category of "business and making money". I don't think anyone has the ability to say they have this knowledge, and yes that includes the most successful billionaires in the world. The fact that you are trying to call yourself a "teacher", because you run a photography studio and a shaved ice business is bizarre, but to say you have helped "accountants", "real estate agents", and "authors" with no formal training or certification is, dubious at best. There is no logical reason to believe you have any ability to do this, and in my opinion your a scammer.TZ said, "Is it your opinion that anyone who proposes he/she can help another person succeed in business and making more money is just a scammer?"
Yes and no. I would first like to point out how you have morphed from a "Network Marketing" "teacher" to a person that "helps another person succeed in business and making more money". That's an interesting transition.
I believe there are people that help others "succeed in business and making money", they are called teachers, and they have formal educations and certificates to prove competency. I do believe there are also informal teachers out there, particularly in trade-work (such as tailors, farmers, mechanics etc.), that mentor people to learn a particular skill or trade.
I do not believe that you fall in either of these categories, and I do not believe you have some overarching general knowledge that pertains to every field that falls under the category of "business and making money". I don't think anyone has the ability to say they have this knowledge, and yes that includes the most successful billionaires in the world. The fact that you are trying to call yourself a "teacher", because you run a photography studio and a shaved ice business is bizarre, but to say you have helped "accountants", "real estate agents", and "authors" with no formal training or certification is, dubious at best. There is no logical reason to believe you have any ability to do this, and in my opinion your a scammer.
I could ask the same thing about you Tyson I posted a comment on your Facebook about how I was decieved and was sick of the automated responses and disclaimer about your REFUND policy why don't you actually be a stand up guy why did you take down my comment and stop me from commenting. How about you actually give people back there money if they have never actually logged into your stupid program and stop letting your customer service staff deal with all the bullshit from you being a scammer. There are legitimate people in the world trying to make money for there struggling families and the world doesn't need people like you who deceive and take this away from.
DeleteUnknown --
DeleteI'm sorry you were scammed by Tyson. Unfortunately, he doesn't operate with any moral or lawful business practices, so getting a refund is going to be impossible without a lawsuit.
If you paid with a credit card, you may be able to do a charge back. That would be my best advice.
I have edited the following comment due to a violation of my rules on this blog. I do not condone any solicitations for any products, especially those that are related to a scam.
ReplyDeleteTZOctober 10, 2017 at 5:06 PM
Hey folks - Tyson Zahner here (the real one).
Consider the reason this author (John Doe) chooses to remain anonymous. Cowards can say anything they want behind the veil of anonymity.
He admits that he hasn't purchased any of my products so he has no first hand experience other than the fact that he's seen some of my videos ...
(Oh, and the body shaming John Doe … real classy and totally relevant to your argument … well done)
Ultimately John Doe’s comments don’t bother me because I know this … every single person who's ever made a difference in this world has/had critics.
Mother Teresa had critics.
Every world leader has/had critics.
Martin Luther King, Jr. was murdered for making a difference.
But you know who doesn't have haters? People who take zero risks.
People who are insignificant.
It's real easy for folks like John Doe to throw stones anonymously from the sidelines while others are out on the field.
So first, I want to let every person out there reading this know (if you've had people doubt you and say negative things about you and say you'll never amount to anything) ... that's normal.
It means you're moving toward your goals and you're likely making others around you feel insecure with their lack of ambition.
John Doe is not the first hater I've encountered online and I'm certain he won't be the last.
I'm not here to appease him or anyone like him.
I'm here to serve those who can think for themselves and NOT those who are easily persuaded by some anonymous review online.
So perhaps you're wondering how to know if I'm the real deal?
Well, I could send you to multiple testimonials from my students ... people who've worked with me first hand (you could find plenty of them by searching “Tyson Zahner reviews” on YouTube)
But testimonials can be faked, right?
So I guess could post tax returns showing the results I've achieved, but that could easily be faked as well.
I could show you that I have a huge community of followers on social media who look forward to my content and free training every week.
But who knows, perhaps I purchased all of those fan page likes from 3rd world countries just to boost my ego.
So NO, I don't expect any of that to convince you, and I won't insult your intelligence by suggesting that it should.
David Brear October 11, 2017 at 12:33 AM
DeleteJohn - I think Mr. Zahner has somewhat foolishly just proved the accuracy of my analysis of him.
When you know how 'MLM' cultic rackets function, Tyson Zahner is revealed as both funny and sinister, but above all, almost-entirely predictable in his tedious act.
Mr. Zahner is merely another otherwise-mediocre (and unoriginal) little charlatan who has been steadfastly pretending to have access to a secret knowledge which has enabled him to transform from an ordinary poor human into a fabulously wealthy superhuman, and that he is prepared to share this secret knowledge with anyone (for a price).
The USA seems to produce a never-ending supply of Tyson Zahners, but history proves that, at times of mass-alienation (following: wars, natural disasters, economic crises, etc.), all-manner of ludicrous crooks peddling all-manner of ludicrous salvation find it much easier to become widely-accepted as authentic Messiahs.
John DoeOctober 11, 2017 at 7:04 AM
DeleteTZ said, "Consider the reason this author (John Doe) chooses to remain anonymous. Cowards can say anything they want behind the veil of anonymity."
My anonymity is not relevant to the discussion of your legitimacy. This silly distraction is not effective in this setting.
TZ said, "He admits that he hasn't purchased any of my products so he has no first hand experience other than the fact that he's seen some of my videos ..."
Please stop with the repetition. You said this line at least 4 times in your previous post. We get it, you like this line of bad logic, but it is still bad logic and will not hold weight in this setting.
TZ said, "Ultimately John Doe’s comments don’t bother me because I know this … every single person who's ever made a difference in this world has/had critics.
Mother Teresa had critics.
Every world leader has/had critics.
Martin Luther King, Jr. was murdered for making a difference.
But you know who doesn't have haters? People who take zero risks.
People who are insignificant."
First of all, did you just compare yourself to Mother Theresa and MLK Jr.? Can we sound the narcissism klaxon? Unbelievable.
Second of all, I clearly have bothered you as you have come to this blog and written a bizarre and error-riddled tirade. But this is irrelevant.
I clearly am not "insignificant", according to your logic, as a "hater" has presented himself in my comment section.
TZ said, "So perhaps you're wondering how to know if I'm the real deal?
Well, I could send you to multiple testimonials from my students ... people who've worked with me first hand (you could find plenty of them by searching “Tyson Zahner reviews” on YouTube)
But testimonials can be faked, right?
Funny how you answer your own question here, but you leave out the glaringly bigger problem. Your endorsements for your product are in direct violation with the FTC and may be reported. As I mentioned in the previous comment, you cannot make anecdotal endorsements for your product without quantifiable evidence that it works.
If you actually did want to prove legitimacy, not that it would be possible with the field you claim to be "teaching", you should provide some form of certificate from a reliable institute.
TZ said, "So I guess could post tax returns showing the results I've achieved, but that could easily be faked as well."
Correct again. Tax returns mean little, especially when it comes to legitimacy of the "business" you claim to run as a "teacher" of "network marketing". The fact that you are paying taxes with these, in my opinion, stolen monies, is not relevant.
TZ said, "I could show you that I have a huge community of followers on social media who look forward to my content and free training every week."
Jim Jones had a huge cult following. David Duke has a huge cult following. David Koresh had a huge cult following. You are correct again, this proves nothing.
TZ said, "But who knows, perhaps I purchased all of those fan page likes from 3rd world countries just to boost my ego."
Just want to point out how bizarre this statement is.
David --
DeleteI had a feeling I could trigger Tyson and get him to come here and comment. Not only did he come, but he performed beautifully with his ridiculous comments. Tyson seems to be unique, compared to the other "gurus" or "messiahs" out there. He takes comments on blogs personally, and he will actually take time to defend himself. The lunacy he displays to try and defend his ego shows his own fragility.
Tyson's comments are something this blog needed for veracity. I can write about these people and their shenanigans, but to get one of them to comment, and reveal their insanity, is priceless.
John Doe said: "You have morphed from a "Network Marketing" "teacher" to a person that "helps another person succeed in business and making more money". That's an interesting transition."
DeleteWrong again … I first studied marketing out of necessity to learn how to create success in my offline brick and mortar photography studio. I then transitioned that skillset into other business models. Network marketers and Affiliate Marketers are just one segment of business owners that I help with my knowledge (since I have CREATED success using those business models too). Prior to creating my YouTube channel targeting Network Marketers, I was very active in photography forums helping photographers to create more success in their studios (yet another example of you making assumptions instead of doing any actual research ... good work).
John Doe Said: " I believe there are people that help others 'succeed in business and making money', they are called teachers, and they have formal educations and certificates to prove competency"
So in your opinion, the only way to be considered a credible source of information is to have a formal education on the subject and a piece of paper to prove competency? I'll use my photography studio as an example to prove how ridiculous this logic is and then I'll bring it back to business. I do not have a formal education as a photographer. Never went to school for it (actually I have a Master's degree in education ... so interestingly … according to your standards, I am a real teacher ... I taught in the Missouri public school system for 11 years before leaving and going full time from home, but I digress ...) I have never once had a photography client show up and ask to see my "diploma" or my "certification". My photos (aka - my results) are my diploma. All they have to do is take one look at my photography to decide whether I know my stuff or if I'm full of crap.
I treat my marketing coaching company the same way. What do you think is more effective for PROVING that I have competency in business and marketing? Showing a piece of paper from an institution (by the way, I know a lot of people with degrees in business and marketing who can't find a job because they literally have never created success in business and/or marketing) OR is it more effective and convincing to give away FREE advice (which has been obtained from my real world experience in building multiple businesses) that my potential customers can use to decide for themselves if what I teach works? Your argument about needing a formal education and certification is so full of holes that it doesn't hold water for even a moment.
And on top of that, you speak out of both sides of your mouth. Earlier, you quoted Mark Cuban as a credible source of information to prop up your argument, but Mark Cuban dropped out of high school. He never went to business school. He never went to "investing school". He obtained his education in the very best (and most credible) way possible ... through real world experience in the school of hard knocks. Is it your position that he has no business giving financial or entrepreneurial advice to others since he doesn't have a formal education or a certificate to prove his competency? Tell us again, John Doe what successful businesses you've built (or what formal education do you hold) that gives you the authority and credibility to provide the information that you do on this blog?
I have edited the following comment due to a violation of my rules on this blog. I do not condone any solicitations for any products, especially those that are related to a scam.
DeleteJohn Doe, you are the perfect example of the fact that no matter what anyone says, you’ll twist it to fit your agenda. For example, If I say I’ve never built any business other than direct sales, you’ll use that to say I have no credibility because I’ve never made money in any legitimate way other than (what you claim to be) criminal enterprises. As soon as I show that I have experience building multiple businesses (many of which you could never claim are illegitimate), you twist that to say it’s a “front”, just like a mobster for my actual EVIL plans to simply take people’s money without providing any real value in return.
This is the perfect example that there is no winning with you. (which is why this will be my last post here and then you’ll call it another “disappearing act similar to any other MLM apologist”)
Also John Doe said: "I have edited the following comment due to a violation of my rules on this blog. I do not condone any solicitations for any products, especially those that are related to a scam."
There were no solicitations of any products. In fact, there was not even a link.
***EDIT*** This portion of the comment has been removed because it references where to find Tyson's material. It is irrelevant if a link is published or not, there is no reason to list where people can find your material here. This is the same as any other endorsement which is not allowed.
John Doe said: "He isn't formally trained in anything he speaks about" then he said "[teachers] have formal educations and certificates to prove competency" then he said "The fact that you are trying to call yourself a "teacher" ... with no formal training or certification is, dubious at best. Then Joe Doe said: "None of these people have an actual degree, certificate, or any other verification that proves their information is authentic, legitimate, or at least peer-reviewed". Then he said "you should provide some form of certificate from a reliable institute." I believe I've shown how ridiculous your logic is above, so 'please stop with the repetition. You said this line at least 4 times. We get it, you like this line of bad logic, but it is still bad logic and will not hold weight in this setting. :)
This comment was not edited, but did have to be deleted due to an infraction with the previous comment.
DeleteJohn Doe also said: "These 'Experts' very conveniently leave out their financial incentive to be 'Teachers'". In my case, not true at all. I frequently compare my webinars to free samples at Costco. In several videos I say "If you like the sample, you might be interested in diving deeper and buying the whole box". (If you had not edited my original post due to the fact that it destroys your argument, people would be able to see this is true for themselves). Before people ever sign-up for one of my web classes, I'm very transparent that there will be an offer at the end. I'm also very transparent that I'm sharing the results that have worked best in my business and just because they work well for me, doesn't mean they'll work well for everyone. We all have different businesses, skillsets, personalities, work ethics and a variety of other factors that contribute to success. Please, John Doe show me ONE person that you consider to be a legitimate business coach who GUARANTEES that everyone who trains with them will achieve results. For that matter, show me one college that guarantees you'll get a job after you graduate?
John Doe said: "I clearly have bothered you as you have come to this blog and written a bizarre and error-riddled tirade".
If that makes you feel better, then so be it. The truth is I believe it's important for people to hear both sides of the story. Since you feel the need to post an outside opinion without any first hand experience in dealing with me or my company, I feel it's only fair that I provide the balancing side of your own "error-riddled tirade" so that smart discerning people can decide for themselves who to believe.
This comment was not edited, but did have to be deleted due to an infraction with the previous comment.
DeleteHere’s another perfect example that John Doe will spin anything his opponents say or do to fit his agenda.
If I don’t respond, I’m (in John Doe’s own words) “as much a real person as Pinocchio” who performs a disappearing act similar to any other MLM apologist”
When I do respond, you claim that it only shows my fragility.
Which is it? You can’t have it both ways.
TZ said, "Wrong again … I first studied marketing out of necessity to learn how to create success in my offline brick and mortar photography studio. I then transitioned that skillset into other business models."
DeleteGot it. You started as a normal citizen, "studied marketing", then transformed into a "business helper" "guru". Makes sense. (sarcasm implied)
TZ said, "Network marketers and Affiliate Marketers are just one segment of business owners that I help with my knowledge (since I have CREATED success using those business models too). Prior to creating my YouTube channel targeting Network Marketers, I was very active in photography forums helping photographers to create more success in their studios (yet another example of you making assumptions instead of doing any actual research ... good work)."
Okay, so you are both a teacher and a participant in the "Network Marketing" fraud. Your "teaching" came after you had recruited a bunch of people into the scheme, similar to the Eric Worre path, then you realized it is more profitable to create your own "teachings" and you took Eric Worre's "Network Marketing" term to use as your own. Fascinating.
Also, I'm not sure why you would think I would care about your history with photography. It has nothing to do with this blog or the article. This distraction holds no weight in this setting.
TZ said, "So in your opinion, the only way to be considered a credible source of information is to have a formal education on the subject and a piece of paper to prove competency?"
Yes, and that is the opinion shared in society as well. Degrees and certificates have always been benchmarks for proving proficiency in a subject. I'm surprised you are just now learning this.
DeleteTZ said, "I'll use my photography studio as an example to prove how ridiculous this logic is and then I'll bring it back to business. I do not have a formal education as a photographer. Never went to school for it"
Interesting how you chopped my paragraph in half and left out the part where I said trade-work is different. It actually perfectly describes how your industry is different and does not require higher education (even though there are photography classes). I would not encourage someone to go to college for photography as it is something that can be learned through mentoring and would probably be a waste of money.
TZ said, "(actually I have a Master's degree in education ... so interestingly … according to your standards, I am a real teacher ... I taught in the Missouri public school system for 11 years before leaving and going full time from home, but I digress ...)"
Ah, the appeal to authority fallacy. You are assuming, because you have a masters in education (assuming you are telling the truth), that you can teach "business and Network Marketing". The two do not correlate, and this should background should be disregarded.
TZ said, "I treat my marketing coaching company the same way. What do you think is more effective for PROVING that I have competency in business and marketing? Showing a piece of paper from an institution (by the way, I know a lot of people with degrees in business and marketing who can't find a job because they literally have never created success in business and/or marketing) OR is it more effective and convincing to give away FREE advice (which has been obtained from my real world experience in building multiple businesses) that my potential customers can use to decide for themselves if what I teach works?"
Honestly, it doesn't really matter, because the industry you chose to be a "coach", "teacher", "guru", "mentor" in is a fraud.
For argument's sake, it is valuable to have both of these things, nobody would deny that, but the fact that you do not have any ability to qualify yourself for the "teaching" you offer is the reason I made this point. You have spun this, somehow, into being a reputable "Network Marketing" coach because you have a degree in education and a photography business. Does that make any sense? (Rhetorical question)
I'm not sure why you are trying to dismiss formal education, if you have a "masters in education". It gave you a stable job for "11 years", and you provided a service to your community. Sounds a lot better than running a "coaching business on Network Marketing".
TZ said, "And on top of that, you speak out of both sides of your mouth. Earlier, you quoted Mark Cuban as a credible source of information to prop up your argument, but Mark Cuban dropped out of high school. He never went to business school. He never went to "investing school". He obtained his education in the very best (and most credible) way possible ... through real world experience in the school of hard knocks."
Actually, Mark Cuban has a college degree, he did go to a business school, and he graduated with a "Bachelors of Science degree in Management" according to his Wikipedia page. He dropped out of high school to enroll early in college. Seems odd that you referenced him anyway since there are very few Mark Cuban billionaires out there compared to the rest of high school dropouts.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Cuban
TZ said, "Tell us again, John Doe what successful businesses you've built (or what formal education do you hold) that gives you the authority and credibility to provide the information that you do on this blog?"
Well, my blog is focused on psychology and conditioning from MLM, therefore business is irrelevant. My background, regardless, is also irrelevant and the information I provide can be regularly found across the web and in citations I have provided.
TZ said, "John Doe, you are the perfect example of the fact that no matter what anyone says, you’ll twist it to fit your agenda."
DeleteI have not had to "twist" anything. I simply copy your words and show what is wrong with them.
TZ said, "For example, If I say I’ve never built any business other than direct sales, you’ll use that to say I have no credibility because I’ve never made money in any legitimate way other than (what you claim to be) criminal enterprises."
I still don't know why you bring up your other businesses. They have nothing to do with the subject, and are a weird distraction.
You don't have credibility because the subject you are claiming to be a "teacher" has no quantifiable way to prove legitimacy, and the "industry" it represents is a scam.
TZ said, "As soon as I show that I have experience building multiple businesses (many of which you could never claim are illegitimate), you twist that to say it’s a “front”, just like a mobster for my actual EVIL plans to simply take people’s money without providing any real value in return."
Actually, the reason I consider them a "front" is the way you use them to legitimize your "Network Marketing Coaching Business". Not only do the businesses you talk about have nothing to do with expertise in that field, but you don't have any actual proof that you have some specific training that can be used to provide others with training. This is the case because there is no such training for this "field" you "teach in, and there is no way to prove your "teaching" has had any meaningful impact.
TZ said, "This is the perfect example that there is no winning with you. (which is why this will be my last post here and then you’ll call it another “disappearing act similar to any other MLM apologist”)"
Why would you think you can "win"? You represent a "criminal enterprise" (Brear), and you "teach" on a subject that doesn't exist while taking monies from hard-working, vulnerable, individuals that don't know any better.
TZ said, "In my case, not true at all. I frequently compare my webinars to free samples at Costco. In several videos I say "If you like the sample, you might be interested in diving deeper and buying the whole box". (If you had not edited my original post due to the fact that it destroys your argument, people would be able to see this is true for themselves)."
DeleteNot only does your example have nothing to do with my point about people leaving out their financial incentives (i.e. recruitment, to sell more "teachings), but your original post didn't have anything to do with this either. It was just a glorified plug to get people to look up your information. Which, free or not (which it isn't), is not something that I will ever support here.
TZ said, "Before people ever sign-up for one of my web classes, I'm very transparent that there will be an offer at the end. I'm also very transparent that I'm sharing the results that have worked best in my business and just because they work well for me, doesn't mean they'll work well for everyone. We all have different businesses, skillsets, personalities, work ethics and a variety of other factors that contribute to success. Please, John Doe show me ONE person that you consider to be a legitimate business coach who GUARANTEES that everyone who trains with them will achieve results. For that matter, show me one college that guarantees you'll get a job after you graduate?"
I'm not sure what qualifies as a "business coach", but that terminology already throws up a red flag. You can be a business major and get a degree, but the idea of a "coach" for business sounds like a way to try and be credible without any formal education. That to me, is dubious at best.
Your schools question is another weird distraction that has nothing to do with the legitimacy of your "teachings". I'm not sure why you even brought this up, but society as a whole recognizes that higher education leads to better opportunity.
Interesting that you brought up the "g-word", guarantee, as that word is considered blasphemy in business. Anyone who "guarantees" anything should immediately be disregarded when it comes to these types of results.
TZ said, "If that makes you feel better, then so be it. The truth is I believe it's important for people to hear both sides of the story. Since you feel the need to post an outside opinion without any first hand experience in dealing with me or my company, I feel it's only fair that I provide the balancing side of your own "error-riddled tirade" so that smart discerning people can decide for themselves who to believe."
Oi vey, stop with the first-hand nonsense. That logic, once again, still doesn't work in this setting.
You haven't provided a "balance" at all. You have repeated bad logic, distractions, and "error-riddled" comments in an attempt to confuse the premise and obfuscate the fact that you have no credibility and your "teachings" have no real bearing.
TZ said, "Here’s another perfect example that John Doe will spin anything his opponents say or do to fit his agenda.
DeleteIf I don’t respond, I’m (in John Doe’s own words) “as much a real person as Pinocchio” who performs a disappearing act similar to any other MLM apologist”
When I do respond, you claim that it only shows my fragility.
Which is it? You can’t have it both ways."
Tyson --
I didn't spin anything. I simply copied what you posted and responded. I tried to trigger you because you are easily offended and one of the few people that will actually come to this blog to try and "win".
You didn't have to post any comments, and I wouldn't have ever had any responses. I'm not sure how you could have disappeared if you never appeared in the first place, and you have done a superb job of demonstrating your fragility.
TZ said "So first, I want to let every person out there reading this know (if you've had people doubt you and say negative things about you and say you'll never amount to anything) ... that's normal.
DeleteIt means you're moving toward your goals and you're likely making others around you feel insecure with their lack of ambition."
It's VERY common for people like TZ to say things like this. But no, most of us have not had people tell us that we'll never amount to anything. That's not normal.
I'll leave your readers with this (assuming you don't edit it out just like you did my previous post).
ReplyDeleteStrike #1 against your credibility: Your anonymity shows that you're a coward who doesn't want anyone to know who you are because you have absolutely experience to speak about the things of which you speak.
Strike #2 against your credibility: You resort to profanity such as calling me an "asshole" (have we ever met in person, by the way? Have you been through my coaching, training or courses?) and other cheap shots like body shaming and pointing out my struggle with my weight (clearly you recognize how foolish this made you look because you've edited your original post to remove the "fat remarks")
Strike #3 against your credibility: You've never built a successful business yourself
(normally 3 strikes is "out" but I'll continue)
Strike #4 against your credibility: You admit you've never had any first hand dealings with my products or my company.
Strike #5 against your credibility: You edited out the ONE, most important part of my post that would truly allow people to see for themselves whether I know what I'm talking about or not (all under the guise of saying I "broke" the rules on your blog even though there was no link to any product or web page whatsoever)
Shall I continue? ...
Strike #6 against your credibility: You talk about of both sides of your mouth. On one hand you state (repeatedly) that one must have a formal education and certification to prove competency and then you quote someone like Mark Cuban (who has none of those things) to help make your argument.
TZ said, "I'll leave your readers with this (assuming you don't edit it out just like you did my previous post)."
DeleteI have only edited out the references involving how to find your "information" and "teachings". I don't support that here.
TZ said, "Strike #1 against your credibility: Your anonymity shows that you're a coward who doesn't want anyone to know who you are because you have absolutely experience to speak about the things of which you speak."
Not that I have to defend myself, because I don't, but I could care less if you knew my identity. I keep anonymity to protect my family from MLM SLAPP (Strategic lawsuits against public participation) lawsuits. There is no reason for my family to have to go through that ordeal, and the fact that MLMs have a petty history and way too much money is reason enough for me to not stick my neck out there.
TZ said, "You resort to profanity such as calling me an "asshole" (have we ever met in person, by the way? Have you been through my coaching, training or courses?) and other cheap shots like body shaming and pointing out my struggle with my weight (clearly you recognize how foolish this made you look because you've edited your original post to remove the "fat remarks")"
Anyone that claims to have a special knowledge and supports MLM, "Network Marketing", "Relational Marketing, "Attraction Marketing", or whatever other name you want to call it, is a 100% bonafide asshole. You are quite deserving of the label.
I actually don't care about your weight, but again, I knew it would trigger you, and is the reason I put it out there.
TZ said, "You've never built a successful business yourself"
How would you know? After your first comment, literally saying you know nothing about me, how could you then make this claim? Doesn't this make your attempt at credibility look bad?
This is just silly.
TZ said, "You admit you've never had any first hand dealings with my products or my company."
I just...I can't. I have to laugh at this.
TZ said, "You edited out the ONE, most important part of my post that would truly allow people to see for themselves whether I know what I'm talking about or not (all under the guise of saying I "broke" the rules on your blog even though there was no link to any product or web page whatsoever)"
If that was the most important part of your tirade, then consider it a blessing people didn't learn how to reach you.
Also, as commander and chief of this blog, I do not need to post a formal "rules" page, but again, I do not condone people promoting, or suggesting where to find, material that can be deemed harmful to consumers.
TZ said, "You talk about of both sides of your mouth. On one hand you state (repeatedly) that one must have a formal education and certification to prove competency and then you quote someone like Mark Cuban (who has none of those things) to help make your argument."
Funny how you doubled down on this one, which you are flat wrong about. Here is the link to Mark Cuban's wikipedia page: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Cuban
I think you will find it, enlightening.
John - To summarize -
ReplyDeletePredictably, Mr. Zahner (whose only qualification seems to be that of music teacher) is attacking your credibility whilst steadfastly pretending that he can teach/help anyone to succeed/make money in 'MLM,' when the quantifiable, overall hidden churn/loss rates for this type of so-called 'business/income opportunity,' have always been effectively 100% .
Years ago, I wrote the following analysis which Mr. Zahner perfectly conforms to:
Decades of independent quantifiable evidence proves beyond all reasonable doubt that anyone claiming, or implying, that it is possible to make money in a so-called 'MLM scheme,' cannot be telling the truth and, consequently, he/she cannot produce any independent quantifiable evidence to back up his/her absurd false statements.
David --
DeleteThank you for your summation. I fear I went too deeply into his responses, and as such, may have been a bit long-winded. I wanted to make sure I highlighted as many of the flaws as possible, as a demonstration to the constant trickery and deceit these MLM charlatans display.
Your analysis is perfect. I may reference this in the future!
I watched Mr. Zahner's "Discover 21 Ways to Generate Leads For Any Business Online" video and walked away with plenty of marketing value for my software business... For free. Did not expect to receive that much insight from a perceived "MLM guy."
ReplyDeleteJohn Doe - how many business owners have you helped that qualifies you to call this a scam?
I am going to preface my response to this by stating I watched this video, sadly, and found that it is not on YouTube and is not something you can randomly stumble upon. This is something you have to find after watching a different Tyson video, or you can specifically search for it in Google by typing those exact words. This video is part of Tyson's "sales funnel" to get people to buy his classes, and is a completely misleading (all pun intended) way to get people to his material.
DeleteAnonymous said, "I watched Mr. Zahner's "Discover 21 Ways to Generate Leads For Any Business Online" video and walked away with plenty of marketing value for my software business..."
This video, much like the rest of Tyson's crap, has no original message and is often wrong and hypocritical. The beginning of the video actually has a still shot of him in front of a white board with the words "The Only 2 Ways to Generate Leads in Network Marketing", and yet this video says there are 21 ways for any business, which it turns out is not accurate either because his "21 ways" are just stupid sentences he invented to trick people into looking at your MLM product. It is the same click-bait BS Buzzfeed uses, and he even writes it out in the same list format.
For the record some anonymous person claiming to get "marketing value", whatever that means, from this video holds no weight here. If you don't provide some quantifiable evidence that you have seen a ROI (return on investment) after implementing these tools, then nobody cares.
Anonymous said, "For free."
Well, the video is effectively valueless, so at least you broke even.
Anonymous said, "Did not expect to receive that much insight from a perceived 'MLM guy.'"
This tactic of trying to sound skeptical, even though you are clearly a shill, is pathetic. You don't sound more credible.
Anonymous said, "John Doe - how many business owners have you helped that qualifies you to call this a scam?"
First of all, some anonymous person asking me to qualify myself is a bit ironic. Second, since when did helping business owners become a qualification for calling someone a conman, which by the way, he is, and he demonstrates just how slimy he is throughout his video (ex. "It isn't about selling the product, it is about building rapport"). He is literally teaching people how to con others out of their money.
Thanks for leaving this comment. You have done a great service in showing how rotten Zahner is.
John Doe, Tyson does make some valid points in his defence, It is easy to throw mud at people by sanctimonious people like your self but if there are people out there who have learned and developed skills in utilising the social media and the internet to give themselves a little edge why not learn from someone that seems to be doing it right, even if you have to compensate him for it, after all we're not communists ! my name is John Zadunaisky from Australia
ReplyDeleteJohn Zadunaisky said, "John Doe, Tyson does make some valid points in his defence,"
DeleteInstead of saying, "some valid points" can you point to one specifically? This is too vague to hold any weight.
On a side note, this is something that a lot of people in America love to do! Any time they don't actually have any justification for holding an opinion they will say something this vague, and when questioned further, they will turn irate or simply shut down.
John said, "It is easy to throw mud at people by sanctimonious people like your self"
Woah woah woah. Are you suggesting when I "throw mud" it is somehow different from when you use an ad hominem against me? When I call someone out on their BS, then I am all of a sudden sanctimonious? How about the fact that I'm not being compensated for this, and feel compelled to help my fellow society members? That makes me sanctimonious? Get out of here you progressive liberal nutter.
John said, "but if there are people out there who have learned and developed skills in utilising the social media and the internet to give themselves a little edge why not learn from someone that seems to be doing it right,"
Two things. First, why do you use commas instead of periods? Is that an Australia thing? Second, you missed my point entirely. It wouldn't be a problem if it wasn't for the fact that he is not offering anything unique and often is completely wrong and dangerous. He teaching people how to lie and cheat others, and he is doing it in a way that does not help society progress because he is heavily involved with "Network Marketing" a.k.a MLM.
For the record. He isn't "doing it right", he never has, and he never will. He is a two-bit crook utilizing modern advancements for self-serving motives.
John said, "after all we're not communists !"
What the!? You clearly have been to too many feminist, LGBTQ, #Blacklivesmatters events. You throw out a term like communism completely inappropriately and erroneously, because it is a current buzzword in this crazy political climate in the hope that it will mean something and not be challenged. So, let's learn what communism is.
Communism: a political theory derived from Karl Marx, advocating class war and leading to a society in which all property is publicly owned and each person works and is paid according to their abilities and needs.
In other words, everything gets split evenly, and it doesn't matter if you are a doctor or a shoe salesperson, you will be compensated the same. What the hell does this have to do with Zahner, and when did I ever advocate for communism? Oh that's right, never, and this is just an inflammatory response that means absolutely nothing.
I followed TZ on Facebook for a long while. I have listened to his free stuff. As a small business owner, he has given me an inspirational push, like a cheerleader. I haven't learned anything I don't already know. I am what is considered a data-miner, I have listened to countless webinars by various gurus revealing their secrets. Some are not MLM, but everything I have viewed is a sales funnel to the next paid level. I mean from $39 to $50,000. I just want to let people know the freebie is always followed by paid content. I followed one 'group' on FB which talked about improving business sales. For me, they mentioned the art of closing a deal and thus improving upon sales. The information was not revealed in the webinar, nor the in-person free seminar. That free seminar consists of a great public speaker telling you how he made it big, and how his training can help you too. It was about selling guests on his 3-day seminar. He said, his wife would teach us how to sell, how to approach sales, and how to close sales. I attended the training of Venture Capitalist gurus, $600 for the seminar. That seminar was to sell you on their $50,000 program -- giving you the tools to be successful. Yes, his wife did speak about sales but never the 'how to', but rather buy into their $50.00 program and she and others will train you personally. The investment was $50,000 plus 10 % of your earnings after their coaching. They even said if you didn't have a niche, they would help you find one for $50,000. When they sold the $600 seminar it was to help business owners learn techniques to improve their bottom line, in reality it was an up-sale to their $50,000 program. I was able to get a full refund after submitting a letter stating they never covered the topics noted at their free in-person seminar. A lot of time, the majority of time, was spent on them, their lifestyle, and name dropping. Which seems to a common thread for killing time instead of providing content. As you can see, I don't mind paying and learning.
ReplyDeleteBack to TZ, I really liked his persona until today I thought about buying into his programs. He often posts Facebook videos. In late 2017 he had a video telling us Facebook shut down his page, and asked his followers to like his new page. He alluded to the page & video content being in violation of FB terms of use. (Perhaps the part where advertisers are not able to substantiate claims). I've noticed a few times in videos TZ gets pissy, and riles against his doubters. How did I end up here today? March 1, 2018, he posted a video about someone writing to him asking for the bottom line, the one big tip for success. He was on the edge of rudeness about audacity a person has to ask that question. He compared it to someone telling a doctor they want to live the same (affluent) lifestyle as doctor without going to medical school, and if the doctor recommended just ONE class in becoming a doctor. Sarcasm? Yes, mixed with condemnation. Comparing his level of knowledge in his field to that of a doctor's knowledge his their (doctors) field made me run to Google to learn more about TZ. Even doctors can be reviewed independently online, as well as formal checks and balances about medical professionals. As he said he was fired up, but it came across as defensive and narcissistic.
Gates, Jobs, Zuckerberg, never finished college, they have however provided products and usable content. The problem with gurus providing intellectual knowledge, is there is no way to substantiate the value of the content before you pay. At least a book can be reviewed by readers. These webinars are not independently reviewed anywhere, and that is where buyers need to beware. I recommend an email to an intellectual knowledge guru asking if they will provide a refund if not satisfied with a paid webinar, then keep the email.
Anonymous --
DeleteThank you for your detailed comment! I'm glad you found this blog and were able to share your story.
In the first part of your comment you address the webinars and how they are a mechanism for generating revenue for more expensive webinars. In my opinion, this is deception and should be treated as such. Simply saying it is a sales funnel is giving them too much purity, these people are charlatans and will do whatever they can to manipulate their audience into paying exorbitant fees for non-essential information. If they wanted to provide a quality product, then there would be one webinar series with one price, and not a differing range of free webinars to $50,000.00. The idea that they are withholding certain information because you didn't pay enough is lame at best and dubious at worst.
Addressing the TZ issues.
1. "I've noticed a few times in videos TZ gets pissy, and riles against his doubters."
The man has massive ego issues and way too much time on his hands. He came to defend himself on this blog because I, an anonymous person online, called him fat. He has also defended himself against me, years ago, when he made a video suggesting Amway wasn't a scam. Needless to say, that did not resonate well with me.
2. Anyone that decides to talk in parables instead of making things clear and concise should be avoided. If he starts sounding like Confucius, then chances are he doesn't actually have the answers you want and is just coming up with BS. These charlatans need to edify themselves and sound superior, and what better way than to give you some weird convoluted message that makes no sense.
I would argue the main issue with these "gurus" is that they are not successful because of their knowledge, but rather because they are enriching themselves from claiming to be "gurus". Robert Kiyosaki, the original "guru" I investigated, has no business sense, routinely gives awful and dangerous information, and continues to perpetuate an image of business omniscience while never providing any results. Tyson can be lumped into this same category. Who knows if his real businesses are actually profitable, and who knows if he makes as much as he claims in MLM, but if he does make as much as he claims, then he has taken a lot of hopes and dreams for others to benefit himself. That is the ultimate deception with MLM, the self-enrichment at the expense of many is horrifying, and has led myself and others to write many articles about this.
I have two degrees and all they’ve given me is debt!
ReplyDeleteBut, you'll hand your money over to a scumbag like Tyson instead of paying your bills? All righty then...
DeleteIma Pill --
DeleteA couple of issues here:
1. Degrees don't "give you" debt. You elected to purchase the opportunity for the degrees and absorbed debt as a cost. That was your choice and your responsibility to bear.
2. Could you be less vague about your degrees? If they were in African Studies and Lesbian Dance Theory, then yes, they offered nothing of use and you will not get a career from those degrees.
3. How long have you been out of school? Have you given yourself an opportunity to earn money through a valuable career?
4. Why would you get a second degree if the first degree didn't help? I'm not sure I follow this logic.
Some food for thought.
I just got scammed by Mr. Tyson who took $497.00 from me for no services delivered. He will proof with every little information that he is right but his days are numbered. Tyson, you know who is talking. If you are a real businessman and are successful, what is $497.00 to you? Why don't you return my money? What services did I buy from you. Only little people will hold on to that kind of money but everywhere even Walmart there is returnable service. Return what does not belong to you otherwise you are just a scam.
ReplyDeleteHi Susan (if your claim that we "scammed you" is true, I'm not sure why you're posting anonymously)
DeleteRegardless, we always refund anyone who meets and submits the requirements they agreed to in the terms and conditions for the product.
So there are two ways for you to get your money back ...
#1 - If it is your position that you didn't authorize the purchase of our product, you should take that up with your bank and they will certainly help you to verify that someone used your card fraudulently.
#2 - If, however, you did authorize the purchase of our program, we are happy to refund your money if you submit the requirements for the refund policy that you agreed to when purchasing the program.
Our website, sales page and order form all clearly explain that we have an action-based money back guarantee (we even state that if you do not plan on taking action or if you're the kind of person who quits because you changed your mind, the program isn't for you and you should refrain from purchasing. We're very deliberate in trying to repel customers who have no intention of applying what we teach).
In fact, just to show our good will, I will even extend your 30-day action-based refund policy starting today (Jan. 3) even though you purchased all the way back in Sept. 2018.
Of course, this will require you to log-in and actually use the training that you purchased. But if you do that and you're still not satisfied with the results from our training, I will happily give you until Feb. 4, 2019 to meet the 5 simple requirements that you agreed to when purchasing the program. (Feel free to email our support staff with a screen shot of this message for proof of this offer).
Here's the bottom line ... If you apply our program but don't get the desired results, that's on us and we'll happily issue a refund. Please simply send an email to our support staff prior to Feb. 4, 2019 (that gives you a full 30 days starting today) showing that you implemented the training and we'll happily issue a prompt refund.
Thank You
Anonymous -- Just so you are aware, that is the real Tyson Zahner.
DeleteI read through Tyson's return policy and it is clearly designed to inhibit people from getting refunds. His arbitrary standards to prove worthiness of a refund are asinine and his document is not based on anything more than his outrageous subjective standards.
The bottom line is this, Tyson's not going to go out of his way to give you your money back, so you don't need to go out of your way to try and earn it back from him. Based on his logic, if you paid for his "teachings" and then changed your mind 10 minutes later, you would still have to sacrifice hours/days/weeks of your time to try and get your money back. He doesn't care about your change in life situations as he explicitly says, "Additionally, refunds will not be issued because the customer "changed their mind" or "had unforeseen financial circumstances" or "had a family/medical emergency" or "cannot implement the program at this time" or any other reason outside of doing the work and subsequently being unsatisfied with the results." Furthermore, even if you decide to meet his subjective criteria, there is plenty of grey area for him to reject a refund.
If you want to get a refund, then you need to contact your bank or credit card company and challenge the charge as fraud. If it is within 30 days, they will absolutely give you your money back as they side with you 99 out of 100 times. If it is longer than 30 days, then you may have to provide evidence to support your claim, and even then there is a good chance you can get your money back.
Don't let Tyson burden you with his nonsense. Just go to your 3rd party group and fight him through that course of action.
John Doe - there's only one problem with your argument that our standards are outrageous. These outrageous subjective standards are clearly provided BEFORE the customer chooses to purchase the product.
ReplyDeleteIt's explained on the webinar. It's explained on the sales page and there's a box with the full terms written on on the order form just above the "submit" button along with a checkbox that MUST be manually ticked by the customer indicating that they've read and agree to the full terms of purchasing our program (here's a screenshot if you'd like to see for yourself - https://www.screencast.com/t/SJgM3rBsyLVj )
If the customer feels those terms are outrageous, they shouldn't purchase the product ... that's pretty simple solution, wouldn't you agree?
Our return policy is not designed to "inhibit people from getting refunds" as you would suggest. It's designed to keep the wrong customers from purchasing our product in the first place (people who change their mind, don't take action, have buyers remorse, make excuses, etc.). This policy is listed in at least 3 places before the customer has a chance to submit his/her order.
I don't know how much more clear and transparent we can be.
Tyson said, "These outrageous subjective standards are clearly provided BEFORE the customer chooses to purchase the product."
DeleteThat may be the case, but it doesn't matter if you are selling a fraudulent system that is designed to profit from rather than enrich the people that purchase the service. Also, I doubt there is any real legalese being used in your disclaimer, and it doesn't much matter if it is within 30 days. The CC company will never side with you in regards to a charge back in that short time frame.
Tyson said, "It's explained on the webinar. It's explained on the sales page and there's a box with the full terms written on on the order form just above the "submit" button along with a checkbox that MUST be manually ticked by the customer indicating that they've read and agree to the full terms of purchasing our program"
Again, none of this really matters. I doubt you are fully reading and explaining the entirety of that terms of service page, since it would probably take hours, and if your product is a sham, then it is null and void anyways. Your TOS document is nothing more than a scare tactic.
Tyson said, "If the customer feels those terms are outrageous, they shouldn't purchase the product ... that's pretty simple solution, wouldn't you agree?"
I am all about autonomy and the ability for people to make decisions for themselves based on a full and clear understanding of the product or service. I believe they should own that responsibility, assuming they were choosing upon free will and without any information being withheld. I believe the product or service being provided must be authentic and not designed to take advantage of others. Your product/service violates this by suggesting you have a hidden knowledge that will help people to be successful for a nominal fee. That hidden knowledge doesn't exist, and the "companies", MLM(s), you are affiliated with violate the authentic opportunity. Your MLM nonsense falls flat.
Tyson said, "Our return policy is not designed to "inhibit people from getting refunds" as you would suggest. It's designed to keep the wrong customers from purchasing our product in the first place (people who change their mind, don't take action, have buyers remorse, make excuses, etc.)."
This is quite the backward logic. You claim you don't want the "wrong customers" to join, and yet you are trying to lock the wrong customers in by creating this ridiculous TOS. It's not the "right customers" that are needing to read and use the TOS, it's written for the ones you don't want to give returns. That is why a TOS exists. If you really wanted "wrong customers" out, then you would make it as easy as possible to give them their money back and usher them away.
Tyson said, "This policy is listed in at least 3 places before the customer has a chance to submit his/her order."
Again, this just proves you want to keep the "wrong customer's" money. You are trying to protect yourself from giving refunds.
Tyson said, "I don't know how much more clear and transparent we can be."
Tyson, the one thing I can count on with you and every other MLMer is your lack of clarity and transparency. I can't tell if you are lying to yourself, or if you really think you can talk circles around me when it comes to this subject. As a business owner, a real one, I am well equipped to understand the nuances in contracts and agreements. I think you understand this too, which is why you are pretending to act like your position is obviously correct, even though it is absolutely backward. This discussion of TOS, much like the discussion of MLM, is an exercise in mental gymnastics for the uninformed. Your nonsense doesn't work on people that are critical thinkers.
John Doe - Have you ever owned one of my products?
Delete(this is a simple Yes or No question)
Interestingly short response, especially since I already have seen you use this tactic. You are going to try and pull the anecdotal evidence fallacy.
DeleteHere's the short of it, I've never given you a dime for your products or services, however I have watched more of your free content than I would care to admit. I also have a lot of experience with other, "teachers", "mentors", "gurus", and other "leaders" that create training programs. They are all the same nonsense.
So, if you want to try and impress upon me that you are somehow different from the rest of your fellow charlatans in this "business", you are more than welcome to try. Just a forewarning, you will probably fall flat.
John Doe said: "I've never given you a dime for your products or services, however I have watched more of your free content than I would care to admit."
DeleteYou've watched some free videos of mine, have you? Well done. This clearly gives you a deep and thorough understanding of my business model and makes you highly qualified publish this review.
Tyson said, "You've watched some free videos of mine, have you? Well done. This clearly gives you a deep and thorough understanding of my business model and makes you highly qualified publish this review."
DeleteI must be a psychic. I can't believe you still tried to use this fallacy, even after I explained why this logic is flawed. Your mental gymnastics are an exercise in futility.
Thank you for continuing to post on the blog. Your responses are very helpful in determining whether you have people's best intentions at heart, and whether you actually have something of value to offer. I suppose it isn't surprising you haven't changed over the years, except for your appearance. There are diets and exercise for that.
You're certainly welcome. And thank you for continuing to respond back. Your responses only prove how poorly qualified you are to speak on this topic ...
ReplyDeleteJohn Doe said: "the 'companies', MLM(s), you are affiliated with violate the authentic opportunity. Your MLM nonsense falls flat ... the one thing I can count on with you and every other MLMer is your lack of clarity and transparency."
I'm not an MLMer and I'm not affiliated with any MLM companies (I haven't been since 2016 as I've been 100% focused the past two years on growing my own companies and my own brand ... none of which have any type of affiliate program or multi-level payout structure incorporated). Admittedly, some of my customers are involved in MLM so I do speak to the Network Marketing audience in some of my marketing, but Network Marketers are just a small segment of my customer base. You make the assumption that because I market to people in MLM, that I am one and that my entire business model revolves around something that you so clearly despise. Actually, the majority of our customers are small business owners who have nothing to do with MLM. We help real estate agents, financial planners, service providers, insurance agents, lawyers, dog trainers, personal trainers, photographers, doctors, B2B, info product creators, coaches, authors, and much more!
John Doe said: "if your product is a sham, then it is null and void anyways."
by your own admission, you said that you've never owned any of my products (your exact words were "I've never given you a dime for your products or services") so how would you know if it's a sham or not? Oh that's right, you've watched some of my free videos. So based on that information, perhaps I should start a travel blog reviewing destinations I've studied but never visited. My credentials would be that I've watched several free videos about Paris and I've studied France extensively. Even though I've never actually been there nor have I experienced it first hand I'll start a review site and give travel tips for people who want to go to France. Based on your logic, I'm as qualified to speak on that subject as you are to speak about me and my business.
John Doe said: "The CC company will never side with you in regards to a charge back in that short time frame."
Is this another area where you deem yourself to be an expert? Because we actually win the majority of our chargeback disputes (we don't get many chargebacks, but we win the majority of the ones that do come in). In fact, the reason "Anonymous" (aka Susan) came here to post on your blog on Dec. 29 in the first place is because she already submitted a chargeback request with her bank and the bank sided against her and with us. Her bank agreed that our terms were clearly laid out and presented to the customer prior to making her purchase (but clearly you know more about this than the credit card legal departments ... I guess you've watched some free videos on the topic).
Tyson said, "I'm not an MLMer and I'm not affiliated with any MLM companies (I haven't been since 2016 as I've been 100% focused the past two years on growing my own companies and my own brand"
DeleteThat's truly fascinating. I wonder why you would have left MLM, especially since you used to reference your huge success in it. It's not very common for people to step away from their major revenue streams.
Tyson your "programs" and your "brand" are built upon your experience within MLM. Therefore, it doesn't matter if you are affiliated with MLM anymore, because you are using the same nonsense and tactics as the rest. Eric Worre is hardly involved with MLM, but he, and many others, all do the same "teaching" garbage you are doing.
Tyson said, "Admittedly, some of my customers are involved in MLM so I do speak to the Network Marketing audience in some of my marketing, but Network Marketers are just a small segment of my customer base."
Not only do I not believe this, but I would assume MLMers are your best targets. They are the easiest people to swindle since they will not question your message.
Tyson said, "by your own admission, you said that you've never owned any of my products (your exact words were "I've never given you a dime for your products or services") so how would you know if it's a sham or not?"
I know your history, I know your free videos, and I know the people that are also in your category of teaching. That's plenty more experience than most would need to identify a charlatan.
"So based on that information, perhaps I should start a travel blog reviewing destinations I've studied but never visited. My credentials would be that I've watched several free videos about Paris and I've studied France extensively. Even though I've never actually been there nor have I experienced it first hand I'll start a review site and give travel tips for people who want to go to France. Based on your logic, I'm as qualified to speak on that subject as you are to speak about me and my business."
This is more anecdotal fallacy nonsense, you've just chosen to try and spin it in a different web. For the record, your example is terrible, and I'll illustrate why with this example. People write history books and study periods of time that happened thousands of years ago. We regularly reference experts on subjects involving ancient history, and they obviously have no direct experience since they weren't alive thousands of years ago. Would you say they aren't qualified to speak about, let's say dinosaurs, because they were never chased by one? Of course not.
Tyson said, "Is this another area where you deem yourself to be an expert? Because we actually win the majority of our chargeback disputes (we don't get many chargebacks, but we win the majority of the ones that do come in)."
DeleteAgain, I don't believe that since no businesses in America win in disputes with charge backs. It is well-known that CC companies will side with their customers over a business, period. The idea that you are somehow able to fight off charge backs with your "teaching program" is utter nonsense unless other evidence was supplied.
Tyson said, "In fact, the reason "Anonymous" (aka Susan) came here to post on your blog on Dec. 29 in the first place is because she already submitted a chargeback request with her bank and the bank sided against her and with us. Her bank agreed that our terms were clearly laid out and presented to the customer prior to making her purchase (but clearly you know more about this than the credit card legal departments ... I guess you've watched some free videos on the topic)."
You are omitting details in regards to this, and you still haven't proven that "Anonymous" is this alleged person, it's just you guessing. As I said, if they did the charge back within 30 days, there is a 99.9% chance you will lose. If it was after 30 days, then it is much harder to win, but still possible. My guess is her charge back was after 30 days, and regardless your TOS is ridiculous and something no bank would take seriously in regards to issuing charge backs.
John Doe said: "... you are selling a fraudulent system that is designed to profit from rather than enrich the people that purchase the service.
ReplyDeleteWhat criteria do you use to determine if someone has been enriched by a product/system/service or not? Furthermore, who are you to make that judgment upon someone else's life? Shouldn't you leave it up to the individuals to determine where they find value and what has enriched their lives? For example, the French Bulldog Breeder who went through my course and got 3 new customers and 20 leads in one day within less than a week after he purchased my course (screenshot of his testimonial can be found here: https://www.screencast.com/t/lDRThUmEzDt) would probably disagree with you and he would argue that his life and business have been enriched by my system. The self-defense teacher who is getting more leads to come in and try out to his local self-defense classes up in Canada would also probably beg to differ. A husband and wife health coaching team who increased their income $20,000 just last year as a direct result of our system, guidance and training (here's a screenshot of her testimonial: https://www.screencast.com/t/RwfisiHs) would probably also disagree with your assertion that the system is fraudulent and hasn't enriched their lives. But then again, what do they know? (they only have real world, first hand experience with the product).
Tyson said, "What criteria do you use to determine if someone has been enriched by a product/system/service or not?"
DeleteYour history and the subject to which you are claiming to be an "expert". You fail in both regards. You have been part of MLM nonsense and started your "teaching program" with instructions for helping MLMers. Also, your background does not support or suggest you have any experience with helping people in generating incomes. Last I heard, you were an English teacher, a photographer, and a snow cone maker. If someone is looking for help in regards to starting a business or marketing, I think they would most likely choose someone with different credentials. The field in which you claim to be an expert and teach others your trade is based on fraud as well, so even if you were qualified to help others with marketing, it wouldn't be done in this way.
Tyson said, "Furthermore, who are you to make that judgment upon someone else's life?"
I'm just a person that has done way too much research in regards to people like you. I know the way in which you take advantage of others for profit, hence my statement.
Tyson said, "Shouldn't you leave it up to the individuals to determine where they find value and what has enriched their lives?"
No, because they aren't being given the full information to make a well-reasoned decision, AND often the people you target are not well enough educated in critical thinking to understand what is happening. They don't know how people like you operate and take advantage of others.
Tyson said, "For example, the French Bulldog Breeder who went through my course and got 3 new customers and 20 leads in one day within less than a week after he purchased my course (screenshot of his testimonial can be found here: https://www.screencast.com/t/lDRThUmEzDt) would probably disagree with you and he would argue that his life and business have been enriched by my system. The self-defense teacher who is getting more leads to come in and try out to his local self-defense classes up in Canada would also probably beg to differ. A husband and wife health coaching team who increased their income $20,000 just last year as a direct result of our system, guidance and training (here's a screenshot of her testimonial: https://www.screencast.com/t/RwfisiHs) would probably also disagree with your assertion that the system is fraudulent and hasn't enriched their lives. But then again, what do they know? (they only have real world, first hand experience with the product)."
I think you already know where I'm going to go with this, but testimonial fraud is a hallmark from people like you. But, let's give you the benefit of the doubt and say these testimonials are real. If you want to show us the 3 good ones, then why not show the bad ones? Obviously, you aren't batting 100%, so let's get a real idea of success vs. failure. Let's see real data, for once.
For the record, I am actually pleasantly surprised you are referencing people outside of MLM. Good for you for actually trying to get away from it.
Back on Oct. 4, 2017, John Doe said “I'm not "filtering" comments, never have, never will.”
ReplyDeleteIf this is true, where are the most recent comments I submitted? It’s been several days since I wrote back (the evening of Jan. 4th, 2019 to be exact). Usually you publish and respond within a few hours.
If option A.) My comments aren’t published within the next 48 hours or option B.) this erroneous blog post isn’t taken down, I will share the comments you’re refusing to publish by distributing my own screen-sharing video on pages that I own and control (on my Facebook, YouTube and my own websites). I will show screenshots of this error-filled post along with everything you’ve said previously showing that you have always responded swiftly … until now (which proves you’ve finally been presented with facts you simply can’t dispute and/or that you have an agenda to lead your visitors to believe what you want them to believe instead of showing both sides of the story as you once claimed you would do – why else would you publish and respond to every other comment I’ve made here except these most recent ones?).
We can both save each other a lot of time if you choose to remove this post from your blog as I won’t publish my video about your site (which will undoubtedly make people question your motives and credibility) and you won’t have to keep defending your unfounded assumptions about me (we can both go our separate ways and never interact with one another again).
But if you choose to leave this inaccurate post up without (at the very least) publishing the facts I’ve presented several days ago, make no mistake that I will continue to defend my reputation by disproving every single incorrect assumption you’ve made and published about me (and I won’t do it with rhetoric or opinion … I will do it with undeniable, indisputable, provable facts that cannot be argued against … as evidenced by my last reply which you have yet to publish)
P.S. –and since you’re the one who brought it up (AGAIN) and you seem so genuinely concerned with my health and wellness, this screenshot should set your mind at ease (https://www.screencast.com/t/Oz2mvlwns3bx). You no longer need to worry about my health nor should you feel the need to use it in your personal attacks against me (as if it were in any way relevant to your position in this debate in the first place – which, of course, I do plan to reference in my video which will further diminish your credibility and ultimately reveal your pettiness). But, again thanks for your genuine concern for my health and well-being ;)
Tyson --
DeleteCalm down. I'm not as regularly involved with this blog, or other anti-MLM subjects, which can be shown by my lack of making a new post for many months. This isn't my top priority, and you aren't my top priority. I appreciate your level of dedication to this, it has been interesting.
I don't filter comments, except for when they are links to websites, such as your own, that I do not wish to promote on the blog. You should know this by now.
Your hollow threats mean nothing. You can do whatever you want with the content on this blog, that's why I posted this information to the internet. It's free for everyone.
Tyson said, "But if you choose to leave this inaccurate post up without (at the very least) publishing the facts I’ve presented several days ago, make no mistake that I will continue to defend my reputation by disproving every single incorrect assumption you’ve made and published about me (and I won’t do it with rhetoric or opinion … I will do it with undeniable, indisputable, provable facts that cannot be argued against … as evidenced by my last reply which you have yet to publish)"
Still waiting for those facts. You've been keen to leave those out for the past few years, but hopefully you finally have some.
Congratulations on the weight loss! I'll admit I'm a bit stunned, and those photos look a bit -- edited for my liking, but seriously congratulations. I just took a look at one of your recent videos and you do look way better.
Now we just have to work on your issues of vanity and narcissism. That way you won't have to worry about anonymous people like me offending you so easily over the internet. That can be a lesson for another day.
John Doe said: "We regularly reference experts on subjects involving ancient history, and they obviously have no direct experience since they weren't alive thousands of years ago."
ReplyDeleteThis is a ridiculously weak rebuttal (and really nothing more than a failed attempt to justify your lack of credibility) and I think you know it. The primary reason one would rely on these experts over eye-witness account is because we have no other choice.
Are you really saying that if you could choose between someone who had really been chased by dinosaurs vs. someone who had simply studied dinosaurs, you would still choose the latter?
If you have the choice to read a review on Amazon that says "Verified Purchase" next to it vs. one that does not, which one would you choose? (Amazon recognizes that consumers are smart enough to realize that a review from verified buyer is way more credible than any other type of review. I wonder why you can't seem to admit that fact - perhaps it doesn't fit your agenda?).
The only thing anyone really needs to know about this article and whether they should take it seriously or not is your statement: "I've never given you a dime for your products or services". (fool yourself if you'd like, but you know as well as I do that if you had the choice between listening to a review from a verified buyer/owner/consumer of the product vs. "a studied expert" who's never tried the product, you'd pick the former every time)
Tyson said, "This is a ridiculously weak rebuttal (and really nothing more than a failed attempt to justify your lack of credibility) and I think you know it. The primary reason one would rely on these experts over eye-witness account is because we have no other choice."
ReplyDeleteTyson, we make decisions based on data collected, rather than experience, all the time. This was one example to show your argument is flawed. I'll try one more time, since this seems to be going over your head, but it's going to be similar to the previous example.
Let's say you wanted to warn someone about jumping off of bridges because they could get seriously hurt or die. Would you be discredited because you haven't jumped off of a bridge, or is it fair to look at the evidence of others that have done this and make a logical conclusion?
Again, if you don't understand the fundamental issue with your argument after these two examples, then I don't know what to tell you.
Tyson said, "Are you really saying that if you could choose between someone who had really been chased by dinosaurs vs. someone who had simply studied dinosaurs, you would still choose the latter?"
Possibly. The person being chased by dinosaurs may not know as much about the dinosaurs as someone that created a career examining them. We have coaches in sports that have never technically played, but are more well-equipped to train and lead than former players. Your question is highly situational.
Tyson said, "If you have the choice to read a review on Amazon that says "Verified Purchase" next to it vs. one that does not, which one would you choose? (Amazon recognizes that consumers are smart enough to realize that a review from verified buyer is way more credible than any other type of review. I wonder why you can't seem to admit that fact - perhaps it doesn't fit your agenda?)."
Again, this is a silly argument that has real issues. Whether someone bought the product from Amazon, or a different store, makes no difference in their ability to review it. Sure, it's nice to know that it was purchased and reviewed through the same platform, but it isn't a concrete way to determine the veracity of someone's review that didn't purchase directly from Amazon. What if the product was given as a gift and they loved it so much they wanted to give it a review on Amazon? Would you discredit their review because of the missing "Verified Purchase" icon? Your inability to reconcile nuances to your own examples is problematic.
Tyson said, "The only thing anyone really needs to know about this article and whether they should take it seriously or not is your statement: "I've never given you a dime for your products or services". (fool yourself if you'd like, but you know as well as I do that if you had the choice between listening to a review from a verified buyer/owner/consumer of the product vs. "a studied expert" who's never tried the product, you'd pick the former every time)"
If your only argument is to keep using the anecdotal evidence fallacy, then I am not sure why you keep commenting. I have succinctly shown you why that logic is problematic, I have shown through my experience with this blog that I have taken a lot of time to investigate people like you and your "teaching programs", and I even watched your latest free video dressed as a hippie. You haven't changed, you still use your MLM history as a form of misleading credibility, and you continue to not provide data or statistics to support your product works.
It may be time for you to find a different place to play Tyson. You aren't getting anywhere with this.
John Doe said: "Whether someone bought the product from Amazon, or a different store, makes no difference in their ability to review it... What if the product was given as a gift and they loved it so much they wanted to give it a review on Amazon?"
DeleteYour response proves that you've either missed my point entirely or you're so desperate to prove your own point that you're skirting the issue.
The real issue is not whether they've purchased the product from the same platform where they're giving the review. The point is THAT they've owned, consumed and used the product and had first hand experience with it.
Obviously, Amazon has no way of knowing if you purchased from some other platform so their only way to provide the reliability their users are looking for is to indicate that it was a verified purchase through their platform.
The fact that you seem to miss this point and continue to double down at an attempt to qualify your credibility (or lack-thereof) shows that your logic is the one that's flawed.
And since you can't seem to understand this, I'll give you a real world example:
Here's a product on Amazon called "The Keto Diet: The Complete Guide to a High-Fat Diet, with More Than 125 Delectable Recipes and 5 Meal Plans to Shed Weight, Heal Your Body, and Regain Confidence" - https://www.screencast.com/t/mchjKDlxvk6c
(FYI - I don't endorse this product nor am I affiliated with it in any way. I'm simply using it as a REAL WORLD example to illustrate what type of reviewer you are)
I'm going to show you two different 1-star reviews. The first one (screenshot here - https://www.screencast.com/t/uWMaRBrJopX5), 91 people found to be helpful. Why? Because s/he clearly owned and used the product and gave real world feedback about why s/he didn't like it.
Contrary to what you might think, I have no problem whatsoever if someone wants to issue a negative review on me and/or my product(s). In fact, I welcome it. It shows us where the company has room for improvement. What I do have a problem with are reviews that aren't based on real world, first hand experience (which you've admitted you don't have) and are only published for the purpose of pushing some sort of personal agenda by the reviewer. To show exactly what I mean, let's move on to example #2 ...
Now here's another 1-star review (actually 2 of them - https://www.screencast.com/t/j5ibTrYNeLBa) but only 1 person found each of these reviews helpful. Why? #1 - it's unclear if either of these people have ever owned or used the product and #2 - the review is clearly jaded by the reviewer's obvious agenda (their disdain for this type of diet and subsequently their "mission" to prevent others from trying the diet as well)
I have three simple questions for you and I hope you'll be honest in your answers ...
#1 - If you were thinking about purchasing this keto diet book on Amazon, which of these review examples would you give more "weight" and credilbity to? (screenshot #1 or #2)
#2 - Why do you think Amazon added the "Verified Purchase" seal to the reviews on their platform (if not to give added credibility to the review)?
#3 - Do you have a general contempt for the MLM industry and the things/people associated with it? (a simple yes or no answer will do)
Tyson said, "Your response proves that you've either missed my point entirely or you're so desperate to prove your own point that you're skirting the issue."
DeleteDon't worry, I have no problem understanding your hypothetical situations. The problem is your hypothetical situations actually support my position, not yours.
Tyson said, "The real issue is not whether they've purchased the product from the same platform where they're giving the review. The point is THAT they've owned, consumed and used the product and had first hand experience with it."
Two things here:
1. Fake testimonials happen, and proving a person's testimonial is real based on whether they purchased it through Amazon is flawed.
2. The content of the review is infinitely more valuable than whether they purchased it from Amazon.
You cannot prove people have or have not used the product based on that icon, you can only prove they purchased it through Amazon. If that holds more weight for you, then their tactic worked the way they wanted it to work.
Not only does this hypothetical not address the issues with your use of the anecdotal evidence fallacy, but it doesn't even help you prove that I cannot be qualified to speak about your "teaching program". This thought experiment did not serve the purpose to which you intended.
Tyson said, "The fact that you seem to miss this point and continue to double down at an attempt to qualify your credibility (or lack-thereof) shows that your logic is the one that's flawed."
The only one doubling down and making repeated errors is you. I have clearly and succinctly addressed the issues with your arguments and examples for why I am not qualified to have an opinion about your "teaching program". You keep repeating yourself, and it is continuously failing.
Tyson said, "If you were thinking about purchasing this keto diet book on Amazon, which of these review examples would you give more "weight" and credilbity to? (screenshot #1 or #2)"
First, there are multiple things happening here other than the "verified purchase" factor. The first review is well-written and is specific to the actual item being sold. The second review is someone being a jerk, and the third review is someone expressing concerns over the subject in general, and not specifically describing the item listed. So, the first review is going to be the most valuable because of the content in the review in comparison to the other two. Also, I have no idea if the first review has a special priority because of Amazon algorithms over the other two, but I would assume it does. This will help to get more people to see it and rate it over the two.
Tyson said, "Why do you think Amazon added the "Verified Purchase" seal to the reviews on their platform (if not to give added credibility to the review)?"
I believe it is designed to increase consumer confidence in the review, however that doesn't mean it is in fact a better metric for determining the veracity of a claim or review. Ultimately, it will be the content of the review that is the most important.
Tyson said, "Do you have a general contempt for the MLM industry and the things/people associated with it?"
Yes! That's why I write this blog! I want to warn people of predators and predatory "business opportunities".
I just sat thru his webinar and it was very compelling, but he is a blatant liar! He said at the end he would answer questions. Well, I listened at 11:30 AM EST and he referred to "tonight" as the time of the webinar. It became obvious that is was a pre-recorded webinar and his interaction with the "people" in the cat box was scripted. He would ask if there were questions and every time pick the same names before and after my question. It was all a scam. He was not really there.
ReplyDeleteAnonymous --
DeleteMany of these "webinars" have been recorded as part of the "sales funnel" in which these people, such as Tyson, generate their conversions. Tyson is all about automation, which you will see from the e-mails you receive as well.
The real Tyson has actually showed up here a few times to comment, because this is apparently what he actually does with his time. You will be hard pressed to actually get any information directly from him, and everything he says is based upon very generic and vague information. It isn't actually applicable in most cases, or is meant to make you feel good rather than make you better.
I attended Tyson's webinar and I found it incredibly helpful. I implemented what I learned just from his free training and generated 118 leads for my business in 5 days. People are joining my challenge, my private FB group and setting appointments with me. I thought it was great stuff and I'm getting excellent results so far.
DeleteI knew the webinar wasn't LIVE nor do I recall Tyson ever claiming that it would be. He just said it was an upcoming free web class that you could pick a time to attend.
Knowing that it wasn't live, I was curious about the chat so I emailed his support staff asking about the comments that were displayed and they said that this was done as a live webinar a little while back and all the comments came from real people who attended this same presentation when it was broadcast live.
I'm guessing his presentation software remembers the chat from the previous live call and then replays the chat on the recorded simulation.
So the comments weren't fake or made up. They came from real people that attended a previous call. I assume they are displayed to replay viewers to help other attendees see questions that may be similar to ones they have during the presentation.
So I don't really know what "Anonymous" is so upset about. Tyson didn't say the webinar would be live so I didn't feel misled or lied to. All I really cared about was whether the information presented would be helpful and applicable to my business (from the results I'm getting, clearly it was). To be honest, it was one of the best free trainings I've ever attended, and I'm getting results from implementing what I learned so I couldn't care less if it was pre-recorded.
Nicole said, "I attended Tyson's webinar and I found it incredibly helpful. I implemented what I learned just from his free training and generated 118 leads for my business in 5 days. People are joining my challenge, my private FB group and setting appointments with me. I thought it was great stuff and I'm getting excellent results so far."
DeleteYour anecdotal, private, experience means nothing here. If you have quantifiable evidence that Tyson's "teachings" helped you to get a return on your investment, then that will go much farther than this comment.
"I knew the webinar wasn't LIVE nor do I recall Tyson ever claiming that it would be. He just said it was an upcoming free web class that you could pick a time to attend."
The way in which the free "webinar" is pitched does appear to suggest it will be hosted live by Tyson. You have to schedule a date and time, and then it says "Tyson Zahner" will be hosting it. It doesn't say anything about it being pre-recorded, and you can't watch it outside of specific time slots. I'm not sure why you assumed it wasn't live, but the vast majority of people would think the opposite.
"Knowing that it wasn't live, I was curious about the chat so I emailed his support staff asking about the comments that were displayed and they said that this was done as a live webinar a little while back and all the comments came from real people who attended this same presentation when it was broadcast live."
That's just silliness. If it isn't live, then you have to assume the whole thing is scripted. He's going to produce a product that is as flattering and enticing as possible, which means it could have been recorded many times, had staged people involved, or could have just been completely made up by him. You don't know the real answer, and there is no way to verify he is being truthful.
Nicole said, "So the comments weren't fake or made up. They came from real people that attended a previous call. I assume they are displayed to replay viewers to help other attendees see questions that may be similar to ones they have during the presentation."
Again, there is no way to know that for certain, and the questions are there to help sell his "teachings" more effectively. It is all part of his marketing.
Nicole said, "So I don't really know what "Anonymous" is so upset about. Tyson didn't say the webinar would be live so I didn't feel misled or lied to."
That "Anonymous" has every right to feel upset, regardless of whether you agree with their opinion. I don't really know why you are taking the time to search for blogs that say Tyson's "webinars" are bad, reading all of the comments, and then writing a lengthy response comment. If you are happy with Tyson's information, and your business is doing well, then you probably shouldn't be wasting your time here.
Nicole said, "All I really cared about was whether the information presented would be helpful and applicable to my business (from the results I'm getting, clearly it was). To be honest, it was one of the best free trainings I've ever attended, and I'm getting results from implementing what I learned so I couldn't care less if it was pre-recorded."
That's fantastic for you! I believe you should give Tyson a tip since he helped you out so much.
So you welcome the comments of those who have a negative opinion of Tyson (like "Anonymous"), but if someone (like myself) has had a positive experience, your response is that person is "wasting your time here"
DeleteSeems like you have an obvious agenda here!
I'm not sure why you care what I do with my time, but if you must know, I was considering purchasing his training course since I achieved such excellent results from the free training provided on his webinar.
So I was doing some research for reviews and this post caught my attention since it was in such stark contrast to my experience with him.
Because Tyson helped me with my business, I thought I'd return the favor by posting my positive experience to counteract the one-sided agenda of your post.
Nicole said, "So you welcome the comments of those who have a negative opinion of Tyson (like "Anonymous"), but if someone (like myself) has had a positive experience, your response is that person is "wasting your time here"
DeleteI don't think you understood my point. I'll try to clarify. If you had a bad experience, then it would make sense to search for other people that have had negative experiences and respond accordingly to a blog about it. It's very strange for someone to have a positive experience and then go hunting for negative reviews to dispel them. Most people wouldn't take the time to read these types of reviews and comments, and then write lengthy comments refuting someone's personal experience.
Also, it is a total waste of your time to be reading this and writing these comments, since you could be working positively on your business and learning more from Tyson. It's an odd use of your free time.
Nicole said, "Seems like you have an obvious agenda here!"
Well, yes I do have an agenda. Everyone does. The reason I write this blog is to help inform people about charlatans, such as Tyson, and the ways in which they use deceptive techniques to make money.
Nicole said, "I'm not sure why you care what I do with my time, but if you must know, I was considering purchasing his training course since I achieved such excellent results from the free training provided on his webinar."
I'm not sure why you are taking my blog, visitor's comments, and my comments so personally. Most people that have had positive experiences with products and services don't care to waste their time with negative reviews. You, on the other hand, have taken an extremely large amount of time to read and respond. It's unusual, and it won't benefit you with your business. That's why I said it was a "waste of your time". You probably aren't going to achieve the end result to which you are intending, unless you were just looking to get a response to your opinion.
"So I was doing some research for reviews and this post caught my attention since it was in such stark contrast to my experience with him."
I'm glad you took the time to read it. I wish you had addressed specific concerns in the post instead of attacking a commentator. I believe it could have helped to provide a more thoughtful discourse.
Nicole said, "Because Tyson helped me with my business, I thought I'd return the favor by posting my positive experience to counteract the one-sided agenda of your post."
Your comments here are not going to help Tyson. Giving him money will help him. Your comments are designed to help you voice your concerns, or vent your frustrations. They are about you, not about him.
Again, I'm not sure why you are taking my post so personally. It has nothing to do with you, and if you find it to be of little value, then it is probably best for you to focus on something else. I'm not saying this because I don't like your comments, but rather as someone that thinks you may be misguided in the way you are trying to help Tyson.
Nicole - Thank you for the kind words. I'm so glad to hear that my webinar was helpful and beneficial to your business. I appreciate you taking the time to comment on this blog. Congratulations and I wish you the best in your business!
DeleteWhen I saw this blog, I was surprised. I am a dietitian who specializes in nutrigenomics. I have bought several programs that definitely deserve your censure. I have wasted both money and time. I would have been in complete agreement if you were writing about those programs.
ReplyDeleteHowever, I have not found this to be true about Tyson Zahner. Yes, he was a music teacher, but that is what makes him unique. He actually teaches! I am not a technology guru; yet he has taught me so much about how to market my service. As with any entrepreneurial business, the goal is to make money. However, I have appreciated how Tyson tells his students that this is not for them if all they want to do is to make money and offers a way out with a 30 day money back guarantee. He also emphasizes the need to truly help people in his program. As a practitioner, I am not a natural marketer. I have mistakenly given away for free my services to so many people trying to help them. Unfortunately, those clients did not value my expertise or my recommendations. It is the opposite for those I have found who want to pay for my services. They are more compliant and appreciate how I have helped them with their health.
I am a customer of Tyson Zahner and have purchased programs from him. I have personally benefited in my business from his program (for the first time). I could have hired a marketing team and a virtual assistant to help me with my business, but I would never have learned it for myself and would have spent so much more money. As a start up business, I cannot afford that type of marketing.
I am not here to debate MLM since my business is obviously a service business. However, the complaint about MLM (which is my complaint) is the constant barrage of seeking out friends and family to make their business work, in addition to the collage of constant social media posts begging for business to the dismay of all those who have it on their feed. Tyson's programs teach those people to stop harassing and learn how to market so that people who actually want a person's product or business opportunity comes to them.
I hope my post will help to hopefully clear up any misconceptions that may have been made about Tyson Zahner. There are many who deserve such reproach. I can only speak from my experience, but I have been completely satisfied with the teaching programs and results.
Thank you for your kind words Michele and thank you so much for taking the time to comment on this blog. I appreciate you being a customer and I'm so glad my training has helped you in your business.
DeleteI agree with Michele. I spent over an hour watching Tyson's webinar, there are many takeaways that I plan on implementing in my own business. I do plan on signing up with his programs. I would suggest if you are curious, sign up and watch the webinar, it is well worth your time.
ReplyDeleteI actually like the MLM business model because in structure it's so egalitarian. For example rather than waiting to be recognized and promoted, you succeed on your own efforts. Likewise for aspirational people, there is no plow barrier to entry. The potential to support people in their personal and professional development is quite massive.
ReplyDeleteThe problem is, as far as I'm aware, that the model has never been executed well. There is a great deal of criminality amongst founders and key players (not all, but many), the model's been applied inappropriately to products that are basically one-off sales rather than creating repeat customers, almost all the products are scams or snake oil, commission structures are predatory, and there is no real business or marketing acumen being taught. If business acumen were taught, they'd lose their distributor base because a simple due diligence procedure would expose the lack of viability. People are universally being burned, losing time, money, their family and friends, and their hope.
Christine --
DeleteYou said, "I actually like the MLM business model because in structure it's so egalitarian."
It couldn't be less egalitarian when comparing the successful versus the rest. There is less than .1% of participants that make the fabulous incomes they describe in their presentations. You couldn't have used a worse way to describe MLM.
You said, "The problem is, as far as I'm aware, that the model has never been executed well."
This is the same nonsense people say about socialism. Socialists claim it just hasn't been done correctly yet, but the potential is there and we believe we can do it right this time. After 60 years of MLM history, I think we can say it has been executed the way in which it was meant to be designed, and it has left many people broke, dejected, and alienated from their group.
You said, "There is a great deal of criminality amongst founders and key players (not all, but many), the model's been applied inappropriately to products that are basically one-off sales rather than creating repeat customers, almost all the products are scams or snake oil, commission structures are predatory, and there is no real business or marketing acumen being taught. If business acumen were taught, they'd lose their distributor base because a simple due diligence procedure would expose the lack of viability. People are universally being burned, losing time, money, their family and friends, and their hope."
I agree with nearly all of this, and I can't understand why you would say you like the model and that it can be executed better while explaining how awful it has functioned. That's some very interesting cognitive dissonance.