tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5576018960973115197.post5414793882999394347..comments2024-01-15T02:20:27.230-08:00Comments on The MLM Syndrome: MLM and "Team Phoenix" the Halloween Special, with a Scary Character Known as Brandon OdomJohn Doehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05186871105223753934noreply@blogger.comBlogger37125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5576018960973115197.post-21499669242595635432018-08-14T14:58:23.488-07:002018-08-14T14:58:23.488-07:00Hello there! This post couldn't be written any...Hello there! This post couldn't be written any better!<br />Reading through this post reminds me of my previous roommate!<br />He always kept preaching about this. I am going to send <br />this information to him. Pretty sure he'll have a good <br />read. Thank you for sharing!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5576018960973115197.post-76075642261998504002018-06-12T15:30:41.059-07:002018-06-12T15:30:41.059-07:00I really like reading an article that will make me...I really like reading an article that will make men and women think.<br /><br />Also, thanks for allowing for me to comment!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5576018960973115197.post-43880010113921904622018-06-05T08:33:30.208-07:002018-06-05T08:33:30.208-07:00Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I truly appre...Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I truly appreciate your efforts and I will be waiting <br />for your next write ups thank you once again.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5576018960973115197.post-69192047268972687282018-04-15T23:14:31.050-07:002018-04-15T23:14:31.050-07:00This site really has all of the information I need...This site really has all of the information I needed about this <br />subject and didn't know who to ask.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5576018960973115197.post-46271169688820131052018-04-09T20:14:19.248-07:002018-04-09T20:14:19.248-07:00Great delivery. Great arguments. Keep up the great...Great delivery. Great arguments. Keep up the great effort.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5576018960973115197.post-66451984822493437152018-04-07T19:45:18.147-07:002018-04-07T19:45:18.147-07:00Thanks for the marvelous posting! I genuinely enjo...Thanks for the marvelous posting! I genuinely enjoyed reading it, you can be a great author.I <br />will be sure to bookmark your blog and will often come back from now on. I want to encourage you to continue <br />your great posts, have a nice evening!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5576018960973115197.post-86974555809482267812018-03-30T22:30:20.251-07:002018-03-30T22:30:20.251-07:00You got him good!You got him good!Scrilla Gorillahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07528283747586535727noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5576018960973115197.post-66426286170676665952018-03-25T22:17:15.646-07:002018-03-25T22:17:15.646-07:00Who hurt you?Who hurt you?Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02271117719243689843noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5576018960973115197.post-61912164814534678222018-03-20T01:48:07.845-07:002018-03-20T01:48:07.845-07:00It's actually a cool and helpful piece of info...It's actually a cool and helpful piece of information. I am <br />happy that you shared this helpful info with <br />us. Please stay us up to date like this. Thank <br />you for sharing.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5576018960973115197.post-58796964902240264952018-03-08T07:29:10.025-08:002018-03-08T07:29:10.025-08:00Anonymous --
Sorry for the late response. This po...Anonymous --<br /><br />Sorry for the late response. This post is one of my most popular and somehow this comment slipped past me.<br /><br />I believe you are right about the anti-MLM movement growing. People don't like to be deceived, but more importantly, people usually don't want others to fall into the same traps.<br /><br />David Brear has addressed the issue of this being similar to a hydra (cut out one MLM and two more grow back). The best way to attack MLM is through the racketeering statutes. It was the only way in which the mob was thoroughly attacked and ultimately decimated. Whatever is left of the mob is a parasite compared to what it used to be.<br /><br />Obfuscation is key. They aren't clever enough to come up with new scams, so they have to come up with new ways to present the same one. It is similar to music in this regard and how people keep writing the same love songs. We have heard them millions (not hyperbole) of times in different versions, but they are all the same.<br /><br />I've always been amazed at how effective these name switches can be. It's a sign that our schools are not emphasizing the critical nature of ideas, but rather addressing rote facts that must be regurgitated at a moment's notice. The focus on someone's ability to remember a date vs. why something happened on that date and how to stop it from happening again is a huge crisis.<br /><br />Yes, the whole, "My MLM is different" is truly frustrating. I'm glad you are able to see that this is just a lame method to shut down critical analysis, because if they really wanted to investigate their MLM, they would not like what they find. <br /><br />The other point to this is, if the original idea is bad, then why try and build something based on that original idea and hope it will be better? Take fractions for example. 1/2 can be written many different ways, i.e 2/4, 3/6, 4/8, but they all mean the same thing. If I change the name or product, but keep the fundamental idea the same, then it is overall the same. It doesn't magically become something new and wonderful, unlike the way in which they try to portray this.<br /><br />I believe the idea behind behind the name "Brandon" being related to MLM nonsense is a false correlation at best, but quite funny. Thank you for pointing that out, it was a good chuckle.<br /><br />Thank you for your feedback! It's what lets me know I'm doing the right thing!John Doehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05186871105223753934noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5576018960973115197.post-3888666826580288562017-11-06T08:17:23.454-08:002017-11-06T08:17:23.454-08:00David --
That switch of terminology reminds me of...David --<br /><br />That switch of terminology reminds me of the John Oliver piece against "Trump University". In the instruction manual, according to Oliver, he instructed his salespersons to never say "Thank you", but instead switch it to "Congratulations" completely altering their mental state. It was genius, and the way it made customers say thank you afterward was astonishing. <br /><br />I wasn't trying to suggest that the rules of the Amway 1979 verdict were adequate, but rather, that should give a platform for attacking MLM further since they cannot abide by those rules. If MLMs ever tried to follow the rules, then they would fail quite quickly because as you stated, "Infinite recruitment + infinite payments by the recruits = infinite profits for the recruits". Nowhere in that phrase is there anything to deal with actual sales or a focus on products. John Doehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05186871105223753934noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5576018960973115197.post-12311919308889604472017-11-06T08:09:13.105-08:002017-11-06T08:09:13.105-08:00Anonymous --
Brandon Odom, much like the rest of ...Anonymous --<br /><br />Brandon Odom, much like the rest of these hoodlums, has a severe level of narcissism. His ego, much like Zahner, was clearly bruised. He is transparent, and his emotionally driven response shows he is wildly insecure.John Doehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05186871105223753934noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5576018960973115197.post-41875352945004828642017-11-05T13:03:39.342-08:002017-11-05T13:03:39.342-08:00Oh, he actually took the time to read it and post ...Oh, he actually took the time to read it and post a comment. Talk about pathetic.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5576018960973115197.post-6461138296989442072017-11-05T01:09:39.904-08:002017-11-05T01:09:39.904-08:00John - The ultimate, arrogant (absurd) defence of ...John - The ultimate, arrogant (absurd) defence of 'MLM' racketeering is:<br /><br />--------------------------------------------------<br /><br />Read the word 'seller (distributor)' as, 'buyer (customer), stupid,' then fraud becomes legal.<br /><br />---------------------------------------------------<br /><br />The 1979 ruling is/was quite remarkable in its failure to recognise publicly the unoriginal, and non-rational, nature of the economic pseudo-science popularly called, 'MLM.' <br /><br />The ruling was even more remarkable in its failure to recognise that 'MLM'-peddling organisations, like 'Amway,' can only be criminogenic and, therefore, they cannot be reformed.<br /><br />In 1979, via the application of common-sense, an absolute ban could have been placed on the instigation of any economically-unviable counterfeit 'direct selling scheme' which offered to pay commission to its contractees on the contractees' own 'purchases' and on the 'purchases' of all further contractees whom they recruit, etc. ad infinitum, because these 'purchases' would obviously be unlawful (rigged-market) commodity investment payments based on the false-expectation of a future reward.<br /><br />What has actually been peddled in 'MLM' rackets is the crack-pot theory that:<br /><br />Infinite recruitment + infinite payments by the recruits = infinite profits for the recruits.<br /><br />David Brearhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11122471861776758998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5576018960973115197.post-38573880356259426822017-11-04T17:52:45.335-07:002017-11-04T17:52:45.335-07:00David --
All we can do is try to have some kind o...David --<br /><br />All we can do is try to have some kind of discourse about the subject at this point. I fear, even though there is tons of research and information, that we are still at the beginning stages of stopping this madness. The more we talk about MLM, the closer we can get to stopping it.<br /><br />The term "end user" is ubiquitous among MLM rackets. It is a gigantic red flag when someone cannot properly separate customer from distributor, and the fact that these instigators are trying their hardest to morph the two, shows the dubious nature of their "opportunity". I have continuously tried to mention this point, because it directly violates the terms of the 1979 Amway vs. United States case. There should be at least 70% of sales to retail customers, and there must be at least 10 retail customers before a new recruit can be introduced to the "opportunity". By coining the term "end user" they have obfuscated the reality in which these two rules continue to be violated by every MLM. <br /><br />I can confirm this reality with my own person experience in which I was taught it is about teaching others to shop at "their store" instead of the grocery store. The focus was not to sell products from "our store" to retail customers. This deliberate language is used to deceive their recruits into joining a pyramid scheme, and it clearly violates the previous two rules.John Doehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05186871105223753934noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5576018960973115197.post-66462819000650919522017-11-04T01:52:35.253-07:002017-11-04T01:52:35.253-07:00John and pinkvictim - you are right at the heart o...John and pinkvictim - you are right at the heart of the matter here - and I love your common-sense approach.<br /><br />When members of my family were under the influence of the 'Amway' racketeers, and I was complaining like mad to complacent UK government regulators, I found that these officials were unable to give me a plain language explanation of what defines a pyramid scheme; so I sat down and worked out the following - and gave it to them.<br /><br />--------------------------------------------------<br /><br />The universal identifying characteristic of all pyramids scams, Ponzis schemes, money circulation games, chain-letter scams, pyramid selling scams, etc. (no matter how they are falsely presented by their instigators), is that, when rigorously investigated, they are revealed to have no significant, or sustainable, revenue other than their own losing participants (who are deceived into handing over their money in the false expectation of future reward).<br /><br />In order to sustain 'MLM' rackets, it has therefore been vital for the instigators to hide the quantifiable results of their so-called 'income opportunities' (i.e. effectively 100% overall loss/churn rates for participants).<br /><br />--------------------------------------------------<br /><br />Lately, 'MLM' racketeers have been allowed to re-label all their losing participants as 'customers' and 'members,' but even this liguistic dodge forms part of the overall pattern of ongoing major racketeering activity.<br /><br />About 20 years ago, I coined the term, 'dissimulated closed-market swindle' to describe the above criminal activity, but then I decided to alter this term to: 'dissimulated rigged-market swindle.'David Brearhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11122471861776758998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5576018960973115197.post-81418876269620974642017-11-03T09:12:34.314-07:002017-11-03T09:12:34.314-07:00I forgot to add that I use npros.com for a fair am...I forgot to add that I use npros.com for a fair amount of research on the people behind the scams. It helps to connect the dots and show how the top cons often founders, or are invited to join in the founding of, their own cons.<br /><br />As an example, it's how I traced Rick Gutman and Dallin Larsen and their scummy dealings.<br /><br />Give it a try next time you're doing some research.pinkvictimhttp://www.pinktruth.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5576018960973115197.post-16880164111817918912017-11-03T08:52:06.103-07:002017-11-03T08:52:06.103-07:00pinkvictim --
I like your interpretation of "...pinkvictim --<br /><br />I like your interpretation of "Circular" marketing. The way I heard it was actually a little different and not nearly as deep. In the Amway meetings, they would draw circles on a board, and that would be considered "ciruclar marketing". Again, not as deep as your interpretation, but I wouldn't be surprised if it had a double meaning.<br /><br />It's really frustrating when MLMers use legitimate terms, such as "affiliate" and "direct sales", to hide the MLM name. That should be something in which they can be held accountable, but it is probably the least damaging thing we talk about. Much like the rest of the MLM story, I would be shocked if someone came out and said, "Hey, I'm an affiliate marketer, and I don't want to be associated with that scum". John Doehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05186871105223753934noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5576018960973115197.post-68603665412145008352017-11-03T08:06:45.282-07:002017-11-03T08:06:45.282-07:00Great post, John! I think it helps to keep reporti...Great post, John! I think it helps to keep reporting these con-artists since I believe society will eventually catch up with us and the spotlight will be on these types of scams. As they continue to victimize people the anti-MLM movement will continue to grow.<br /><br />As far as "MLM" goes, it can be really difficult defeating these terms of obfuscation like "multi-level marketing" because as soon as one is abandoned, there 10 more new terms to take its place, as you have already pointed out. Similarly, the FTC could shut down one of the big pyramid schemes and 100 will take its place.<br /><br />It's similar to all the euphemistic names street drugs go under; each town often has a different name for heroin, sometimes certain dealers will have their own unique brand name. Arguably a better analogy is the term of obfuscation "alternative medicine" instead of quackery.<br /><br />No one wants to buy quackery, but they're okay with "alternative medicine". No one wants to join a pyramid scheme, but they will gladly join a network marketing/MLM/direct selling company. <br /><br />Oh and most MLMs may be scams some will admit, but they are doing one of the few good ones. I always feel like punching a wall whenever I hear that one. <br /><br />As an aside, what's with all the network marketers and con-artists with the name "Brandon"? I keep running into them. It's not a very common name, but it seems like it's common among con-artists. While it may be more common among African-Americans, the crooks I'm always running into are white. Probably meaningless, may be confirmation bias.<br /><br />Keep up the good work!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5576018960973115197.post-26613894469059581792017-11-03T07:59:51.156-07:002017-11-03T07:59:51.156-07:00"Circular" marketing... heh. Think abo..."Circular" marketing... heh. Think about that: We are all marketing in a circle, to each other, no one from the outside... Even the names allude to violations of the FTC guidelines.<br /><br />I didn't list it because "network" marketing is a given. LOL<br /><br />Sure affiliate marketing is legit, but as you point out, MLM'ers try to hide their scams behind a bunch of legitimate sounding gobbledygook. I only include it because that's the moniker that some product-based pyramids try to hide behind.pinkvictimhttp://www.pinktruth.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5576018960973115197.post-41058598093206130612017-11-03T05:52:05.368-07:002017-11-03T05:52:05.368-07:00David --
That's a great article from Dean Kee...David --<br /><br />That's a great article from Dean Keep. He has always had a great understanding of the MLM scheme, and his point about basic math involving 20 million distributors making 35 billion is fantastic. I hope he continues to write and continues to investigate this subject.John Doehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05186871105223753934noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5576018960973115197.post-4879243099201698142017-11-02T11:10:54.888-07:002017-11-02T11:10:54.888-07:00https://seekingalpha.com/article/4118974-defense-m...https://seekingalpha.com/article/4118974-defense-mlm-politics-less-real-businessDavid Brearhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11122471861776758998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5576018960973115197.post-68268734875096186712017-11-02T10:02:28.407-07:002017-11-02T10:02:28.407-07:00We are not the first, or the last, people to have ...We are not the first, or the last, people to have placed our faith in our government's regulators to take action against the 'MLM' phenomenonon, only to learn the shameful reality.David Brearhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11122471861776758998noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5576018960973115197.post-39590757179629184642017-11-02T08:53:10.212-07:002017-11-02T08:53:10.212-07:00David --
That's an interesting idea to get th...David --<br /><br />That's an interesting idea to get the media involved. I'm not sure if anyone takes local news seriously anymore in the U.S., but it definitely wouldn't hurt to try and get a report in the local Scottsdale news. <br /><br />My last response from the FTC was dismal. They sent me a link to their basic "How to avoid scams" page, and they closed the case. I'm not sure what they actually reviewed, if anything, because I didn't get any actual feedback. I'm sure it got filed away somewhere, and eventually if enough start to pile up they may take further action.<br /><br />I have come to the same realization about these agencies and their "danger scale". It seems like these agencies are too high up in the ivory tower to see the common crooks snatching purses below. As nice as it is that they pursue action against mega criminal organizations, such as Herbalife, the damage that groups like "Team Phoenix" does is exponentially higher when you put all of them together. It is also distressing to see Facebook embrace these money-making schemes. Facebook loves to censor controversial topics that don't support their narrative, but they don't care about scam advertisements lining their pockets. The Facebook service is becoming more of a disservice every day.<br /><br />Also, I popped on my account today and found ANOTHER new "Team Phoenix advertisement from an "Ashlin Olsen". She already had at least 130 people commenting on her post, which was nearly identical to the others, and had her posing standing outside of an Aston Martin. It would be comical if it wasn't so sickening, although most comics would put the two together for their routines anyway.John Doehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05186871105223753934noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5576018960973115197.post-21340981225066015952017-11-02T02:04:27.938-07:002017-11-02T02:04:27.938-07:00Speaking as someone who persistently complained ab...Speaking as someone who persistently complained about 'Amway/MLM,' and who actually sat face to face with a senior regulator (and his legal advisors) in the UK, I don't hold out much hope that US regulators will take swift action against the boss(es) of any isolated, counterfeit 'direct selling' company, unless they are forced to, by a deluge of well-informed complaints or by media pressure.<br /><br />The UK government allowed the 'Amway' racket to thrive in Britain for more than 30 years, before a small group of senior trade regulators made a half-hearted effort to close one of the counterfeit 'direct selling' companies fronting it. By that time, dozens of other 'MLM' rackets, fronted by 'Amway' copy-cat counterfeit 'direct selling' companies, had arrived.<br /><br />That said, I would still encourage people to complain to regulators and also to contact the media.<br /><br />Regulatory bodies have become like fire brigades sat playing cards in their fire stations whilst hundreds of false beacons, lit by heavily disguised wreckers, rage around them. When challenged, the fire chiefs' defence is that it's not their job to prevent the lighting of false beacons, they are only paid to try to put out dangerous fires (if they get called) and to advise members of the public about general fire safety.<br /><br />David Brearhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11122471861776758998noreply@blogger.com